Save the Camino

[Tim O'Donoghue]

. . . . . from the peregrinos. The Camino is many things to many people, including a sacred path, historic pilgrimage, and wonderful experience. The defacing of markers, signs, and monuments, and the trash, especially tissue, that litters the way disrespects this. Its time that pereginos past, present, and future take a stand to protect the integrity of the camino. Please follow the principles of Leave No Trace (e.g., pack out what you pack in). Those that are associated with camino organizations, please reach out to your constituency to educate them/us. Perhaps its time to create a modern Knights Templar whose mission is to protect the Camino? Ideas?

 

[C clearly]

Well, we can all continue to make an attempt to leave every place we walk through, a bit cleaner than when we arrived. On the Camino, at home, and everywhere.

 

[Mark Lee]

I agree 100%, but as I have said on here before, I highly doubt that any of this forum's members, or even non-forum members who come on here to look at information, are responsible for littering and graffiti defacing of property along the Camino.
I suspect the culprits are probably too superficial and unintelligent to see the Camino as anything more than an opportunity to act the fool and get drunk or high.

 

[J F Gregory]

I carried a trash bag and picked up as I walked the tip of my walking stick helped.

 

[poogeyejr]

My first camino - I walked with someone who left all his fruit skins, where he peeled them - he said: They will decompose! I agree, eventually they will, but not until they make a horrible mess in someones neighbourhood first!

I carried a trash bag and picked up as I walked

I love this idea - I will have to keep this in mind on my next Camino.

 

[dougfitz]

I'm sorry, but another thread about the woes of litter is just going to dilute the message. We already have three threads on litter that have been active since the middle of the year, two of them within the last week. I wonder how many more we need?

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/first-step-improvement.30169/
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/graffiti.44194/
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/toilet-tissue-on-or-by-the-trail.42182/

 

[Tincatinker]

Doug, I kind of agree with you and clicked the 'like' button. (Like what we're all s'pposed to do today to save articulating an argument.) But. However. Alternatively. Most of the litter, poo and toilet paper threads drop down the page rankings fairly quickly. The wrinkly old vets have seen it all before, possibly stepped in it, and are tired of re-iterating a vary basic concept. The 'newbies' are usually focussed just on getting 'there' in a reasonable state of pilgrim-hood and are more worried about pack-weight, beds, bedbugs and being there. Periodically we have a new thread where a 'pilgrim', who would never shit on someone else's door-step, discovers that the socially incontinent are rife amongst us and, they post their outrage here.

Even one 'new' thread a day expressing the rage and despair of those newly confronted by the desecrations is fine by me. It keeps the topic on the 'front page' - the part of the forum that is possibly as far as most visitors venture. It keeps those simple suggestions like ' carry a trash bag'; 'bag out your tissues'; ' if you can carry a water bottle when it is full you can carry it when it is empty', in the public eye.

Don't despair old friend. If we only affect one pilgrim a day then trickle down says they'll affect another every day. If seemingly endless repetition didn't have the desired impact then commercial television would just be a concept and the advertising industry wouldn't exist

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

since on at least one thread someone mentioned she'd been leaving notes written on rocks all the way to Santiago, hoping to re-connect with someone she'd met earlier on the road, it proves that at least one, and perhaps more, walkers who may trash the road do visit here...

 

[naplesdon]

A few us are assembling in Moratinos later this month to clean the path through Palencia but our efforts are merely a well intentioned drop in the bucket. Granted any effort is better than nothing but I have to agree with Tincatinker that there is no amount of pleading that will keep the Camino clean.
Recently we sealed the asphalt of my condominium building. No amount of signage kept a few negligent owners from walking across the fresh tar and leaving footprints on the tile in our foyer. There is no excuse for "stupid."

 

[CaptBuddy]

I agree 100%, but as I have said on here before, I highly doubt that any of this forum's members, or even non-forum members who come on here to look at information, are responsible for littering and graffiti defacing of property along the Camino.
I suspect the culprits are probably too superficial and unintelligent to see the Camino as anything more than an opportunity to act the fool and get drunk or high.

You hit that nail square on the head.

 

[Mark Lee]

since on at least one thread someone mentioned she'd been leaving notes written on rocks all the way to Santiago, hoping to re-connect with someone she'd met earlier on the road, it proves that at least one, and perhaps more, walkers who may trash the road do visit here...

why not just text, call or email?

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

why not just text, call or email?

it was one of the recent 'in search of pilgrim posts'--apparently didn't get their email or phone number...the why was not explained...
a well-respected forum member suggested that graffiti was not the communication method of choice...so perhaps one more educated member for future caminos

 

[C clearly]

I find it a bit odd (and disconcerting) when people suddenly discover that litterers exist, on the Camino no less, and they post a strongly-worded lecture or rant at this Camino fan club!

However, @Tincatinker makes some good points about keeping the topic current.

I support picking up litter occasionally wherever you walk, but I don't let it make me angry, and I draw the line at roadside cleanup while I am on a pilgrimage.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

what I like about this thread is it was not necessarily started as a rant, it was posed as what can we do to help fix this (and as I said above, clearly some people who contribute to graffiti and trash do actually read this forum, so also it is educational to them).

One thing that come to mind, is whenever someone speaks about their camino experience (to schools, churches, etc) they might include some education on what is not acceptable behavior in a host nation (e.g. indiscriminate defecation, as my parasitology professor used to call it, scribbling your nonsense on something you don't own, discarding your refuse along the road, etc). It seems talks I've attended all stress the beauty, fun, even shoes, but none ever said "don't be a #$(%, take your trash with you and leave the sharpie at home." I fear with some people, you need to be directive. So I will bet at least some great forum members have or will speak at some point about their experience, either to a public group, or even a gathering of friends. One thing we could all do in those situations is stress how this thoughtless, immature, and selfish behavior is not appropriate...because clearly those doing it need to hear that...a lot, and you never know who wants to write their stupid poetry on a hospitales marker.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

A few us are assembling in Moratinos later this month to clean the path through Palencia but our efforts are merely a well intentioned drop in the bucket. Granted any effort is better than nothing but I have to agree with Tincatinker that there is no amount of pleading that will keep the Camino clean.
Recently we sealed the asphalt of my condominium building. No amount of signage kept a few negligent owners from walking across the fresh tar and leaving footprints on the tile in our foyer. There is no excuse for "stupid."

my marathon coach's version of that is "can't fix stupid"...but hope springs eternal that once heard repeatedly, and sometimes with pointed emphasis, some will realize that while their brain circuitry doesn't tell them it's wrong, they will be socially punished for it...like training a dog, they lack the concept of wrong, but they do know what brings praise and what earns a different reaction.

 

[dougfitz]

what I like about this thread is it was not necessarily started as a rant, it was posed as what can we do to help fix this (and as I said above, clearly some people who contribute to graffiti and trash do actually read this forum, so also it is educational to them).

You are being very generous in this assessment. Unfortunately, this thread doesn't offer anything that hasn't already been said, some as recently as in the past few weeks. I defer to @Tincatinker's interpretation that there is value in keeping this topic 'alive', but I do wonder when someone who doesn't appear to have bothered to contribute to the existing discussions on this is suddenly shouting 'save the camino' as if litter is some sort of existential threat.

 

[Montana Jayne]

I carried a trash bag and picked up as I walked the tip of my walking stick helped.

You are definately my kind if people! Thanks for what you do. I do the same everywhere I walk here locally.

 

[KinkyOne]

...scribbling your nonsense on something you don't own...

I found that the best description of a "defacing" the walls etc. is the most correct by far until now!!!

But of course, ... I've been part of the suburban culture from early 80's (punk) and I like to think that I'm still somehow part of it. Not really though But signing yourself (as a dog actually) on a wall just isn't a graffiti! Whereas there could be "real" graffiti with strong social or political meaning made/painted on "something you don't own" (did USA own Vietnam to drop bombs over there? - sorry if the comparison is too harsh..). There you have artists/activists that uses all the means to tell "the truth", "their truth", etc. You believe or you don't believe it doesn't matter because (also) they usually don't have any other significant means of expresing themselves.
And then Banksy's murals (oh, you see - "murals", wow!!! like in renaissance Italy and Spain expression, top shit art!!!) are even sold for milions of "whatever". What are those "real" graffiti in all of the cities in this world? Just a vandalism? Or maybe voice of the unheard? A piece of art we can't recognize in given moment???

Just some food for thoughts althought way off-topic, I guess

 

[joanneking]

Doug, I kind of agree with you and clicked the 'like' button. (Like what we're all s'pposed to do today to save articulating an argument.) But. However. Alternatively. Most of the litter, poo and toilet paper threads drop down the page rankings fairly quickly. The wrinkly old vets have seen it all before, possibly stepped in it, and are tired of re-iterating a vary basic concept. The 'newbies' are usually focussed just on getting 'there' in a reasonable state of pilgrim-hood and are more worried about pack-weight, beds, bedbugs and being there. Periodically we have a new thread where a 'pilgrim', who would never shit on someone else's door-step, discovers that the socially incontinent are rife amongst us and, they post their outrage here.

Even one 'new' thread a day expressing the rage and despair of those newly confronted by the desecrations is fine by me. It keeps the topic on the 'front page' - the part of the forum that is possibly as far as most visitors venture. It keeps those simple suggestions like ' carry a trash bag'; 'bag out your tissues'; ' if you can carry a water bottle when it is full you can carry it when it is empty', in the public eye.

Don't despair old friend. If we only affect one pilgrim a day then trickle down says they'll affect another every day. If seemingly endless repetition didn't have the desired impact then commercial television would just be a concept and the advertising industry wouldn't exist

I wonder if, the next time someone asks for a packing list of things to take on the camino, those who provide a list might include, "a few small plastic bags for carrying your trash with you to the next garbage receptacle." Maybe if we make it part of the conversation right from the get-go people will be awakened to the idea that the veterans from whom they seek advice do this and so should they. Put it at the top of the list. And again at the bottom.

 

[Kanga]

And I keep banging the drum - take a small cotton hanky inside a ziplock plastic bag instead of leaving a trail of tissues or toilet paper along the track. Wash it and reuse it.

 

[Anniesantiago]

And I keep banging the drum - take a small cotton hanky inside a ziplock plastic bag instead of leaving a trail of tissues or toilet paper along the track. Wash it and reuse it.

Yes, because as I began complaining many years ago, the toilet paper is mostly left by women, sadly.

 

[williamlittig]

How can I help? If garbage was collected are there resources to pick up those bags? I wouldn't expect that they would be carried 20-30Km. I noted many John Deere tractors throughout Spain. They make small 4-wheel drive vehicles and donate to not for profit organizations (I believe APOC could qualify). I personally would donate for the expense of this idea or others. Contact Me........... Ultreya......... Willy/Utah/USA

 

[Sparrow in Texas]

Perhaps we should post specific instructions such as " Carry a few small snack size ziplock bags for toilet paper that you may have used along the way." The hip belt pocket of my back was too small for my phone but just the right size for my stash of small ziploc bags and tissue.

Just wondering, do you think that some of the problem is cultural (and language in that they are not reading these posts), given that there are pilgrims from many different parts of the world? In the USA at least, "leave no trace" hiking and camping has become much better known and my experience in Europe was that it was much cleaner than the USA.

 

[Icacos]

Yes, because as I began complaining many years ago, the toilet paper is mostly left by women, sadly.

Okay, I'm going to say it. If women don't want to go with @Kanga's suggestion, use tissue / Kleenex instead of toilet paper. Damp tissue / Kleenex is simple enough to handle and pack out. Wet toilet paper is revolting. But whatever you use, pack it out !!!

 

[Mark Lee]

Perhaps we should post specific instructions such as " Carry a few small snack size ziplock bags for toilet paper that you may have used along the way." The hip belt pocket of my back was too small for my phone but just the right size for my stash of small ziploc bags and tissue.

Just wondering, do you think that some of the problem is cultural (and language in that they are not reading these posts), given that there are pilgrims from many different parts of the world? In the USA at least, "leave no trace" hiking and camping has become much better known and my experience in Europe was that it was much cleaner than the USA.

No, I don't think culture or language barrier has anything to do with it, as the idiots that leave trash, defecate on or graffiti up the Camino path probably come from a variety of countries. Also, the amount of pilgrims or prospective pilgrims that visits this forum is a very tiny percentage of the pilgrims that walk the Camino every year.
No, it's just plain selfish, childish, rude behavior which knows no cultural or language boundaries. One shouldn't have to be told it's wrong to throw trash all over the ground, or deface someone else's property. Especially if one is an adult.

 

[Mark Lee]

I found that the best description of a "defacing" the walls etc. is the most correct by far until now!!!

But of course, ... I've been part of the suburban culture from early 80's (punk) and I like to think that I'm still somehow part of it. Not really though But signing yourself (as a dog actually) on a wall just isn't a graffiti! Whereas there could be "real" graffiti with strong social or political meaning made/painted on "something you don't own" (did USA own Vietnam to drop bombs over there? - sorry if the comparison is too harsh..). There you have artists/activists that uses all the means to tell "the truth", "their truth", etc. You believe or you don't believe it doesn't matter because (also) they usually don't have any other significant means of expresing themselves.
And then Banksy's murals (oh, you see - "murals", wow!!! like in renaissance Italy and Spain expression, top shit art!!!) are even sold for milions of "whatever". What are those "real" graffiti in all of the cities in this world? Just a vandalism? Or maybe voice of the unheard? A piece of art we can't recognize in given moment???

Just some food for thoughts althought way off-topic, I guess

ummm, yeah dude. Really not an appropriate analogy.

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

I highly doubt that any of this forum's members, or even non-forum members who come on here to look at information, are responsible for littering and graffiti defacing of property along the Camino.
I suspect the culprits are probably too superficial and unintelligent to see the Camino as anything more than an opportunity to act the fool and get drunk or high.

You hit that nail square on the head.

Mmmmhhhh... I think there could be surprises... I really wouldn't bet my bottom € cent on this one (even if I just picked up and found it doesn't have Santiago's cathedral on it!)
No one's littering the Camino, but there are tons of litters along it... Another Camino's mysterious paradox

And, once again, my thoughts to Serge, living on the Camino, who dedicates himself to clean up pilgrims' trash. And who's picking up outrageous amounts of it before he carries it to the next garbage. Thank you Serge!
Also, to Un paso limpio, a "leave no trace" on the Camino. And the Great Camino Cleanup. And to the humanure facilities along stretches on the Le Puy route. And... And... And...
Thanks to them all!

 

[Mark Lee]

Mmmmhhhh... I think there could be surprises... I really wouldn't bet my bottom € cent on this one (even if I just picked up and found it doesn't have Santiago's cathedral on it!)
No one's littering the Camino, but there are tons of litters along it... Another Camino's mysterious paradox

And, once again, my thoughts to Serge, living on the Camino, who dedicates himself to clean up pilgrims' trash. And who's picking up outrageous amounts of it before he carries it to the next garbage. Thank you Serge!
Also, to Un paso limpio, a "leave no trace" on the Camino. And the Great Camino Cleanup. And to the humanure facilities along stretches on the Le Puy route. And... And... And...
Thanks to them all!

I guess the point that I was trying to make, and this may come as a surprise to some (I sure hope not, though), but the massively, overwhelming majority of pilgrims who walk the various routes of the Camino every year are not members of this forum, do not read this forum and don't even know this forum exists. I didn't learn of this forum until several months after I walked the CF the first time.
I just believe that this forum's members in all probability tend to be a bit more in touch with the right way and the wrong way to act while walking the Camino. I could be wrong, but it just seems that way.

 

[CaptBuddy]

Graffiti and discarded waste and human waste are part of human habitation.
Heck there is a church 2 blocks for my house and there are plastic cups and beer bottle and candy wrappers between here and there. There is a Stop Sign with spray paint on the face. And the dog poop, don't get me started.
Today there is even a dead opossum. Doesn't that church qualify for the same respect as Santiago. Of course it does.
Point is, the Camino is not the only place where there is pollution and defiled markers. Or human and pet waste.
It is everywhere, it is part and parcel of human community (and certainly the Camino is a human community).
Graffiti and waste are what we use to identify and learn about our human ancestors. Seems it is a blight we developed long, long ago.

I don't like it in my neighborhood and more than I like in in Burgos. But I have an expectation that I'm going to encounter it in both.
I also expect that I won't be a contributor in either.

It would be dream-like to walk the Camino with Martin Sheen. That clean, unspoiled vista from each road and each ridge, without another pilgrim in sight, much less cursed graffiti. And perfect hair and pressed clothes each day.
But then there would be no community, and I wouldn't have the friends and memories I made.

I recall the graffiti I saw on a cave wall in Cantabria; after 25 thousand years it had turned into art.

But, the Knights of the Poop Paper Patrol does have a certain ring to it.

 

[C clearly]

Good points @CaptBuddy . We Camino pilgrims are entitled to no more and no less freedom from garbage than the rest of humanity.

 

[Tincatinker]

Walked three dogs this morning. Picked up the poop from five. I'll leave it for the archaeologists in future

 

[joanneking]

Good points @CaptBuddy . We Camino pilgrims are entitled to no more and no less freedom from garbage than the rest of humanity.

But neither should we add to it.

 

[C clearly]

But neither should we add to it.

Of course not! I've said several times that we should all contribute to improving the situation on a daily basis, wherever we are.

 

[Kanga]

It is not inevitable that where there are people there is mess. I see it as a learning issue - most people are well intentioned but problems need to be brought to their attention and solutions suggested. When I give out my little cotton hankies in ziplock bags the women have not usually thought of the problem (I give them out early on the trail), let alone a solution.

I've been to heavily populated places that are pristine - think Singapore. I've also seen places that used to be littered but are not now, because of local anti-litter campaigns. So I agree with @Tincatinker - it is fine to have this topic over and over.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

How can I help? If garbage was collected are there resources to pick up those bags? I wouldn't expect that they would be carried 20-30Km. I noted many John Deere tractors throughout Spain. They make small 4-wheel drive vehicles and donate to not for profit organizations (I believe APOC could qualify). I personally would donate for the expense of this idea or others. Contact Me........... Ultreya......... Willy/Utah/USA

Can you tell me who to contact at John Deere re: the 4-wheel drive thing? We are experimenting this year on the Camino with a litter wagon, but if I had 4wd I could expand into other seasons...
Reb
DitchPig in Chief

 

[MTtoCamino]

Lol just opened this thread more poop than I can witness must leave to get my rubber boots on before I can return...

 

[kelleymac]

Yes, because as I began complaining many years ago, the toilet paper is mostly left by women, sadly.

I use a clean sanitary pad every morning, and throw it out in a trash can at night.

 

[williamlittig]

Can you tell me who to contact at John Deere re: the 4-wheel drive thing? We are experimenting this year on the Camino with a litter wagon, but if I had 4wd I could expand into other seasons...
Reb
DitchPig in Chief

I went to johndeere.com saw the different models, saw their statement on donation qualifications and they have a map where Spanish distributors are marked. I didn't follow it further because I don't represent a not for profit........ Ultreya......... Willy/Utah/USA

 

[SYates]

Can you tell me who to contact at John Deere re: the 4-wheel drive thing? We are experimenting this year on the Camino with a litter wagon, but if I had 4wd I could expand into other seasons...
Reb
DitchPig in Chief

Hi @Rebekah Scott ,

To save you time searching, here is the Spanish website for John Deere http://www.deere.es/es_ES/regional_home.page
BC SY

 

[Marion-SantiagoInLove]

I guess the point that I was trying to make, and this may come as a surprise to some (I sure hope not, though), but the massively, overwhelming majority of pilgrims who walk the various routes of the Camino every year are not members of this forum, do not read this forum and don't even know this forum exists. I didn't learn of this forum until several months after I walked the CF the first time.
I just believe that this forum's members in all probability tend to be a bit more in touch with the right way and the wrong way to act while walking the Camino. I could be wrong, but it just seems that way.

Got you (had before) And I think you're right. I agree with you that people here are "right" people! My answer was a kind addition to your thought, not pointing fingers. Not even a virtual one!
But still, I'll keep my penny

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I like the idea of adding clean item and thing sanitary napkins when we are asked to review what someone is planning to bring.

And perhaps the Forum could run a banner or have a pop up encouraging not littering and licking up so that those who come for a quaick visit but do not hang aroind like the Camino addicts some of us have become can hear/read the message at least once. Perhaps as part of creating an account as well?

A word to the wise, those diaper wipes for adults a loo paper company decided we need a few years ago DO NOT degrade well at all. In fact they are a big problem for city sewage systems, so let's not suggest those at all, even if we mean to suggest them as something that gets thrown out at the end of the day.

 

[dougfitz]

A word to the wise, those diaper wipes for adults a loo paper company decided we need a few years ago DO NOT degrade well at all. In fact they are a big problem for city sewage systems, so let's not suggest those at all, even if we mean to suggest them as something that gets thrown out at the end of the day.

The issue is NOT the biodegradability of wipes, but the fact that they do not disintegrate as quickly as paper when they enter the sewerage system. They remain intact and have to be filtered out of the sewerage stream and taken to landfill, together with dental floss, cotton buds and anything else that isn't one of the three Ps - pee, poo and paper.

Clearly there are things that are just not flushable, and need to be disposed of in the thrash bin, not the toilet bowl. In some countries that includes the toilet paper, and even that should be disposed of in the container provided in toilets, and not in the toilet bowl. No-one would suggest we don't use toilet paper on that basis, and I have much the same view about wipes. They are no different to any other product that doesn't disintegrate - use them by all means, but dispose of them properly if you do.

 

[Silverbarista]

I remember one stretch had garbage bins every km or so and someone had written a line from John Lennon's Imagine on each one progressively through the song and the Camino. It was in Galacia I think. I love that song and walked along for quite awhile with it in my head. I still remember the forest and track whenever I hear Lennon or see a bin, which is quite often, fortunately really. Buen Camino

 

[JillGat]

And I keep banging the drum - take a small cotton hanky inside a ziplock plastic bag instead of leaving a trail of tissues or toilet paper along the track. Wash it and reuse it.

That sounds like a recipe for a bacterial infection. Nice, oozing hanky sealed in a plastic bag...

This may be TMI, but if I have to "go" when I'm outdoors, most of the time I use a smooth stone or piece of wood to wipe myself. I bury any waste. Occasionally I carry a small packet of wet wipes and carry out the used ones in a plastic bag to the next garbage can.

 

[C clearly]

That sounds like a recipe for a bacterial infection.

Urine should be sterile. Probably no worse than wearing the same panties all day! Personally, I just use pantiliners and drip-dry.

 

[dougfitz]

Urine should be sterile.

I think that has recently been shown to be a myth. See, for example, http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/turns-out-urine-isnt-actually-sterile-180954809/.

 

[Silverbarista]

no like in India, when you go to the toilet the pigs go round the back to eat it. Then the tourists order roast suckling pig

 

[C clearly]

I think that has recently been shown to be a myth. See, for example, http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/turns-out-urine-isnt-actually-sterile-180954809/.

Thanks for that link. I knew it wasn't quite true in real life, which is why I said "should", so I'm glad to read about the lab testing methods.

 

[Nanc]

Anemone
Ewe .....littering and licking up?
Just had to laugh

 

[Kanga]

A few tiny spots of urine on a handkerchief. So much better than a trail of paper. Or wet wipes.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Nanc, just be glad I didn't write I think the Forum could have a "poop up" telling people about littering and Picking up!

See, my Ipad only speaks one language at a time, and since French requires greater typing (and grammatical skills), I have it set to French, and it does not correct me in English. This Ipad needs to go on the Camino to become Caminolingual.

 

[Lucy Keenan]

. . . . . from the peregrinos. The Camino is many things to many people, including a sacred path, historic pilgrimage, and wonderful experience. The defacing of markers, signs, and monuments, and the trash, especially tissue, that litters the way disrespects this. Its time that pereginos past, present, and future take a stand to protect the integrity of the camino. Please follow the principles of Leave No Trace (e.g., pack out what you pack in). Those that are associated with camino organizations, please reach out to your constituency to educate them/us. Perhaps its time to create a modern Knights Templar whose mission is to protect the Camino? Ideas?

This is particularly bad on the Frances route and the lottery was shocking when I joined it in Arzua. The Northern Route ia litter free. I know the volume of pilgrims is less but is some people see litter and Loo paper etc they feel more inclined to do the same.

 

[Sunriver OR USA]

I carried a trash bag and picked up as I walked the tip of my walking stick helped.

This is the best. idea. Research shows that establishing a positive social norm is the best way to change behavior. The more litter [ep[;e see, the more likely to litter themselves. Conversely, if other pilgrims see you picking up trash, they are less likely to litter, and more likely to pick up litter themselves.

 

[AndreaCT]

I carried a trash bag and picked up as I walked the tip of my walking stick helped.

This is the best. idea. Research shows that establishing a positive social norm is the best way to change behavior. The more litter [ep[;e see, the more likely to litter themselves. Conversely, if other pilgrims see you picking up trash, they are less likely to litter, and more likely to pick up litter themselves.

True confession time. A couple of years ago someone posted a polite request for women, asking them to pick up their toilet paper, bag it, carry it and and toss it in a garbage can after their side trip to the bushes. I tucked that information away for my trip and used the suggested method. It was easy, no fuss, no mess. I still pass on this tip to other walkers.

 

[Doris Muhs]

. . . . . from the peregrinos. The Camino is many things to many people, including a sacred path, historic pilgrimage, and wonderful experience. The defacing of markers, signs, and monuments, and the trash, especially tissue, that litters the way disrespects this. Its time that pereginos past, present, and future take a stand to protect the integrity of the camino. Please follow the principles of Leave No Trace (e.g., pack out what you pack in). Those that are associated with camino organizations, please reach out to your constituency to educate them/us. Perhaps its time to create a modern Knights Templar whose mission is to protect the Camino? Ideas?

Maybe encourage communities to provide garbage receptacles and toilets?

 

[in memory of Brian]

I find it a bit odd (and disconcerting) when people suddenly discover that litterers exist, on the Camino no less, and they post a strongly-worded lecture or rant at this Camino fan club!

However, @Tincatinker makes some good points about keeping the topic current.

I support picking up litter occasionally wherever you walk, but I don't let it make me angry, and I draw the line at roadside cleanup while I am on a pilgrimage.

picking up a bit of litter hardly constitutes road side clearance but might make a differance!

 

[whariwharangi]

Perhaps we should post specific instructions such as " Carry a few small snack size ziplock bags for toilet paper that you may have used along the way." The hip belt pocket of my back was too small for my phone but just the right size for my stash of small ziploc bags and tissue.

Just wondering, do you think that some of the problem is cultural (and language in that they are not reading these posts), given that there are pilgrims from many different parts of the world? In the USA at least, "leave no trace" hiking and camping has become much better known and my experience in Europe was that it was much cleaner than the USA.

No, I don't think culture or language barrier has anything to do with it, as the idiots that leave trash, defecate on or graffiti up the Camino path probably come from a variety of countries. Also, the amount of pilgrims or prospective pilgrims that visits this forum is a very tiny percentage of the pilgrims that walk the Camino every year.
No, it's just plain selfish, childish, rude behavior which knows no cultural or language boundaries. One shouldn't have to be told it's wrong to throw trash all over the ground, or deface someone else's property. Especially if one is an adult.

I agree the problem is cultural.

One should have to be told its wrong to trash all over the ground or deface someone else's property.

My observation is that Spain (and Latin American countries too so it is deeply embedded in the culture) has a major problem with littering and graffiti ... its not just endemic on the camino.

In order to make a difference you'd have to penetrate Spain's school system and brainwash them at a very young age. It can be done but there needs to be a will on the part of Spanish authority to do it.

Another part of the problem is facility management. I don't recall seeing that much trash on the camino. (Perhaps I walked after the fall clean ups) However whenever there were established rest stops that included a trash barrel ... the trash barrel was inevitably overflowing ... no one was collecting the trash on a regular basis.

Yah I'm picking on one nationality ... but consider that over half of the pilgrims are from Spain. Starting with Spain would be best bang for the buck.

 

[Tincatinker]

Once again we seem to have reached the point where members prefer point-scoring to expressing cogent points of view. Moderators will award points to those who continue to post without regard to forum rules or the normal rules of discourse.

You all know my views on keeping the central topic here current. I notice two new members have contributed to the discussion but I will lock the thread if these breaches continue.

Take a few deep breaths please; or take it to PM.

 

[wayfarer]

I have removed some rude and unnecessary posts, acquaint yourselves with the rules before you post, especially Rule #1

 

[C clearly]

I draw the line at roadside cleanup while I am on a pilgrimage.

picking up a bit of litter hardly constitutes road side clearance but might make a differance!

I support and participate in litter pickup on walking paths, at home and on the Camino. My comment about "road side cleanup" related to another post as well as my own experience. Occasionally when the Camino has a stretch along a major road, one can see a lot of garbage that has almost certainly been tossed from cars. I have allowed myself to pass that garbage without guilt. Cleaning up highways in Spain would have to be a separate project, one that cannot reasonably be combined with my personal pilgrimage! I certainly do pick up litter, just not along highways!

 

[Colin Botterman]

I find it a bit odd (and disconcerting) when people suddenly discover that litterers exist, on the Camino no less, and they post a strongly-worded lecture or rant at this Camino fan club!

However, @Tincatinker makes some good points about keeping the topic current.

I support picking up litter occasionally wherever you walk, but I don't let it make me angry, and I draw the line at roadside cleanup while I am on a pilgrimage.

It seems that it will be left to us, the people who live on the Camino to constantly try and clear up the mess on OUR doorstep. I have recently contacted the makers of Sharpies and now have a formula that will take off the Graffiti from the markers. Its a mixture of Disolvant and thick bleach so our section of the Camino will be kept clean and graffiti clean. Maybe if I could visit the homes of some of the mindless ones and scribble all over their front door. Pointless but would be cathartic for me to relieve the frustration of the last few years of constant cleaning up after the mindless few.

 

[Mark Lee]

I remember one stretch had garbage bins every km or so and someone had written a line from John Lennon's Imagine on each one progressively through the song and the Camino. It was in Galacia I think. I love that song and walked along for quite awhile with it in my head. I still remember the forest and track whenever I hear Lennon or see a bin, which is quite often, fortunately really. Buen Camino

Sorry, I just don't see song lyrics haphazardly scrawled onto overflowing plastic containers full of putrid garbage as nice memories....