Spider bites?

[CarolamS]

On my recent Camino Portuguese a pilgrim I met had some nasty bites, mostly on her legs. I suggested they were bed bugs but the hospitalero (in a private albergue in Pontevedra) said they were spider bites. They did not have the little blisters nor did they itch. However they were in the the row/clusters that I have experienced with bed bugs. She did treat her belongings. I'd not heard of spider bites in Spain. Is this something to watch out for?

 

[trecile]

It does seem much more likely that they were bedbug bites. Good thing that she treated her belongings.

 

[Tincatinker]

"Spider bites are extremely rare. Spiders simply do not go around biting people. In fact, their bites are so rare that you are more likely to get bitten by a dog than a spider."

Trigger Alert: Link includes close-up photos of Spiders

Quotation from https://ingloriousbustards.com/2020/03/07/the-wonders-of-spanish-spiders-not-the-myths/

In an old Fonda outside Girona I was assured that my bites were from Spiders despite me pointing out that you could hear the Fleas pinging off the metal hot-water jug and even the yard-dog wouldn't enter the bunk-room...

 

[CarolamS]

Interesting to get my suspicions confirmed, thank you both. I know how to look for bed bugs and how to protect against them as best I can. Spider bites are a mystery to me. Interestingly the pilgrim with the bites assumed they couldn't be bed bugs because she slept in a silk sheet. I did suggest they are capable of crawling in from the top!

 

[trecile]

Interestingly the pilgrim with the bites assumed they couldn't be bed bugs because she slept in a silk sheet. I did suggest they are capable of crawling in from the top!

Yup, bedbugs get in through the same large opening people use! There is a myth that bedbugs don't like silk and won't go near it. Maybe they would prefer cotton, but they like our blood enough to not be too choosy.

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I did get an insect bite while I was out walking in one of the towns on the Frances, didn't see it, but felt it. Possibly I stepped on a bee but maybe a spider.

Anyway, this was the result.

 

[C clearly]

Ants can sometimes be the culprits.

 

[Tincatinker]

I had an Aunt once that was pretty damn fierce but she never actually took a chunk out of my heel. Having seen what the Blandford Fly https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blandford_fly can do to an otherwise rational Angler I’ll hazard that’s what bit that bit

 

[dbier]

Just as a thought...a pilgrim who just came off the CP central (?) noted here on this forum that they'd had bed bugs.

I would get spider bites as a kid at night ( or so my mother maintained). They itched. She'd spray my bedsheets and air them out, and I wouldn't have them. And they were widely scattered over my feet and lower legs, but no higher....

 

[Pathfinder075]

Their are only really two spiders to watch out for in Spain. Recluse spiders are quite venomous and Black widows. If you get bitten by either you will know about it and it will probably be the end of your Camino. Saw a tarantula up on the walk to Ponferrada on my second year. Not particularly poisonous.

Same with snakes, their are (off the top of my head) 5 venomous species. One is prolific in the Pyrenees area, 2-3 in the hotter meseta areas and one in the wetter areas like Galicia. I've seen zero while out walking.

Scorpions can be found in the meseta/desert areas. Bigger is better than smaller. But I don't think any of them are deadly.

You are more likely to get stung by the multitude of wasps and hornets that seem to be everywhere, or maybe bitten by a dog or bed bug.

 

[WayWalker]

On my recent Camino Portuguese a pilgrim I met had some nasty bites, mostly on her legs. I suggested they were bed bugs but the hospitalero (in a private albergue in Pontevedra) said they were spider bites. They did not have the little blisters nor did they itch. However they were in the the row/clusters that I have experienced with bed bugs. She did treat her belongings. I'd not heard of spider bites in Spain. Is this something to watch out for?

Albergue staff would not be quick to admit bed bugs. I got what I thought was a spider bite on my eyelid in a pension on the Norte. My eye was practically swollen shut. Went to the pharmacy and they just gave me some anti itch....in hindsight I know they knew it was not spider. I have had minor run ins with bedbugs, as in they never attacked me like some I saw. A few bites here and there. In a little row. I always thought they were mosquitoes. now I will always sleep in my treated sleep sak no matter where I am!

 

[Sheila Kenny]

On my recent Camino Portuguese a pilgrim I met had some nasty bites, mostly on her legs. I suggested they were bed bugs but the hospitalero (in a private albergue in Pontevedra) said they were spider bites. They did not have the little blisters nor did they itch. However they were in the the row/clusters that I have experienced with bed bugs. She did treat her belongings. I'd not heard of spider bites in Spain. Is this something to watch out for?

I'm wondering if it was the same private albergue I stayed in at Pontevedra in 2016, where I picked up scabies ... and no, I wasn't having any skin to skin contact!

 

[CarolamS]

Albergue staff would not be quick to admit bed bugs. I got what I thought was a spider bite on my eyelid in a pension on the Norte. My eye was practically swollen shut. Went to the pharmacy and they just gave me some anti itch....in hindsight I know they knew it was not spider. I have had minor run ins with bedbugs, as in they never attacked me like some I saw. A few bites here and there. In a little row. I always thought they were mosquitoes. now I will always sleep in my treated sleep sak no matter where I am!

Unfortunately unless you seal yourself into your sleep sack there is nothing to stop the little devil's from crawling in and biting you should they so choose. Any treatment that kills them takes at least 2 hours to work. So at least you won't carry them with you. These days I believe bed bugs are less of a problem than they used to be. Most albergues now have metal bunks with plastic covered mattresses.
I am bed bug caviar...they will home in on me and ignore everyone else! In Iceland I had more than 50 bites (impossible to count them all), my 5 friends had none!

 

[trecile]

now I will always sleep in my treated sleep sak no matter where I am!

Bed bugs aren't deterred by permethrin and it doesn't kill them on contact. It should kill them if they have contact with the treated surface after a few hours. I treat my sleep sack, inside my backpack and all of my cloth stuff sacks on the theory that if they do get into my pack they aren't coming out alive!

 

[clare kelly]

I had spider bites all over me after staying in the huge old dorm in A Gudiña on the VdlP. They weren’t itchy at all but looked pretty bad. It was ascertained by the pharmacist and others that it was spider bites not bedbugs. I stayed two nights in that dorm due to an injury. I changed bunks. The occupier that night of my original bottom bunk ( they were the old wooden variety) had the same bites next day. As I said they didn’t itch and disappeared after a week. I didn’t treat anything as hadn’t the concern after local (Spanish) knowledge. They just shrugged their shoulders and said “tiny tiny spiders”

 

[Tincatinker]

tiny tiny spiders”

Tiny Tiny Spiders; really big fibs! Or just lost in translation… We used to call them Fleas: another of the God’s creations that figure we were created for them. But there is another possible culprit: Thrips, Thunder Flies, Harvest Flies, No-see-ums. Very small, very big teeth, great sense of humour.

 

[clare kelly]

Tiny Tiny Spiders; really big fibs! Or just lost in translation… We used to call them Fleas: another of the God’s creations that figure we were created for them. But there is another possible culprit: Thrips, Thunder Flies, Harvest Flies, No-see-ums. Very small, very big teeth, great sense of humour.

Oh well. That was my experience at A Guidiña. I have had many experiences of fleas and bedbugs. These were different. No itch. No nasty ongoing effects. They simply resolved without any attention

 

[peregrino_tom]

Spider bites are a growing problem, especially from False Widow spiders which are endemic across Europe and recently have significantly increased in numbers here in the UK. Also if you google spider bites you can see that some come in groups of two or three - I've experienced this myself.
We pilgrims are so afeared of the threat of bed bug infestation that we may overlook other explanations - sometimes, possibly.

 

[dougfitz]

Unfortunately unless you seal yourself into your sleep sack there is nothing to stop the little devil's from crawling in and biting you should they so choose. Any treatment that kills them takes at least 2 hours to work. So at least you won't carry them with you.

Do you have a source for this? There are four different strains of bed bugs, only one of which is resistant to permethrin. If they do come into contact with permethrin treated fabric, they are deterred from going on to consume a blood meal, although the length of the exposure seems to play some part in how much they are deterred.

Bed bugs aren't detected by permethrin and it doesn't kill them on contact. It should kill them if they have contact with the treated surface after a few hours.

I recall the research showing that the permethrin resistant strain of bed bugs will survive a lethal dose for somewhat longer than this, while the results with non-resistant strains are much quicker. The last time I looked at what research articles were available, I shared that here and elsewhere in that thread.

 

[CarolamS]

Do you have a source for this? There are four different strains of bed bugs, only one of which is resistant to permethrin. If they do come into contact with permethrin treated fabric, they are deterred from going on to consume a blood meal, although the length of the exposure seems to play some part in how much they are deterred.

I recall the research showing that the permethrin resistant strain of bed bugs will survive a lethal dose for somewhat longer than this, while the results with non-resistant strains are much quicker. The last time I looked at what research articles were available, I shared that here and elsewhere in that thread.

The video I saw showed bedbugs on a treated surface. The company that posted the video on You Tube are:
" Jdt International, LLC was founded in 2003. The Company's line of business includes the manufacturing of house furnishings, such as blankets, bedspreads, sheets, table clothes, towels and shower curtains" according to Bloomberg.

After seeing this I choose to spray Permethrin on the inside and outside of my pack. I use roll-top dry bags to organize my kit and these I spray inside and out. I accept that this doesn't prevent me getting bitten. My biggest fear is passing any bugs on or bringing them home.

The point of this thread was to understand if there are biting threats other than bed bugs. I think maybe spider bites are just bad luck.

 

[dougfitz]

The video I saw showed bedbugs on a treated surface. The company that posted the video on You Tube are:
" Jdt International, LLC was founded in 2003. The Company's line of business includes the manufacturing of house furnishings, such as blankets, bedspreads, sheets, table clothes, towels and shower curtains" according to Bloomberg.

Assuming it is the same one that is posted from time to time by well meaning members engaging in this discussion, this is my view of it:

This is a dreadful piece of propaganda. More is left unsaid in this about a range of things that would go to establishing whether it was even remotely credible. The two things that came immediately to mind were whether the bed bugs used were from an resistant strain and what concentration of permethrin was used in this demonstration. The video doesn't appear to come from a research laboratory that might have established standard conditions and used a control population. I could go on. If anyone does have more information that fills in the gaps here, please share it. As it stands, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, and for those who have watched, ask yourselves if you really understand what was being achieved here besides a bit of scaremongering.

 

[David61]

Unfortunately unless you seal yourself into your sleep sack there is nothing to stop the little devil's from crawling in and biting you should they so choose. Any treatment that kills them takes at least 2 hours to work. So at least you won't carry them with you. These days I believe bed bugs are less of a problem than they used to be. Most albergues now have metal bunks with plastic covered mattresses.
I am bed bug caviar...they will home in on me and ignore everyone else! In Iceland I had more than 50 bites (impossible to count them all), my 5 friends had none!

I would avoid that supermarket if I were you

 

[ilbestro12]

The vidsfsdo I saw showed bedbugs on a treated surface. The company that posted the video on You Tube are:
" Jdt International, LLC was founded in 2003. The Company's line of business includes the manufacturing of house furnishings, such as blankets, bedspreads, sheets, table clothes, towels and shower curtains" accordfdsfding to Bloomberg.

After seeing this I choose to spray Permethrin on the inside and outside of my pack. I use roll-top dry bags to organize my kit and these I spray inside and out. I accept that this doesn't prevent me getting bitten. My biggest fear is passing any bugs on or bringing them home.

The point of this thread was to understand if there are biting threats other than bed bugs. I think maybe spider bites are just bad luck.

Do most people spray the permethrin on the INSIDE of their backpack?

I know the bottle of permethrin said to do outside surfaces, like the outside of a sleeping bag and such. Do you think it does harm if you put it on the inside of packs and containers? Or even the inside of the sleep sack / bag?

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah I have found some folks don't want to admit that there are bedbugs in their place (too many repercussions) so come up with other diagnoses....

 

[Lurch]

Their are only really two spiders to watch out for in Spain. Recluse spiders are quite venomous and Black widows. If you get bitten by either you will know about it and it will probably be the end of your Camino. Saw a tarantula up on the walk to Ponferrada on my second year. Not particularly poisonous.

Same with snakes, their are (off the top of my head) 5 venomous species. One is prolific in the Pyrenees area, 2-3 in the hotter meseta areas and one in the wetter areas like Galicia. I've seen zero while out walking.

Scorpions can be found in the meseta/desert areas. Bigger is better than smaller. But I don't think any of them are deadly.

You are more likely to get stung by the multitude of wasps and hornets that seem to be everywhere, or maybe bitten by a dog or bed bug.

Not sure about Spanish spiders. (BTW what are they called? ). Growing up in Arizona I have experience with spiders, snakes, scorpions and centipedes. Tarantula bites are painful, poison is weak, but their fangs are huge, take a look next time you see one! Snake bites are bad, if a rattlesnake or asp. Scorpion stings can vary from just plain nasty to fatal. The US bark scorpion is small and can be deadly. The black African scorpion is just as bad, but a lot bigger, so I hav3 been told. No experience in that, though. If I had my druthers,( Southern for Tiincatinker) though, I would say chinchas are the best bet, maybe mutant chinchas?

 

[WayWalker]

Do most people spray the permethrin on the INSIDE of their backpack?

I know the bottle of permethrin said to do outside surfaces, like the outside of a sleeping bag and such. Do you think it does harm if you put it on the inside of packs and containers? Or even the inside of the sleep sack / bag?

Don't put it inside your sleeping bag. It's toxic.

 

[dougfitz]

Don't put it inside your sleeping bag. It's toxic.

Please don't spread misleading information like this.

Once dried, the amount of transmission through dry skin is well below toxic levels. I once calculated the amount of the Sawyers spray product that you would need to swallow to reach the LD50 level is about 5 kg. Using a single bottle to spray your gear will not reach that level even if you aren't following the manufacturers application advice exactly.

Once the product has dried, it is quite safe to handle if you are following the advice from the manufacturer, which includes not exposing wet areas of the body to the treated fabric. Sleep with boxers or other pants, and don't cover your mouth, nose or eyes with the treated fabric.

 

[dougfitz]

Do most people spray the permethrin on the INSIDE of their backpack?

I know the bottle of permethrin said to do outside surfaces, like the outside of a sleeping bag and such. Do you think it does harm if you put it on the inside of packs and containers? Or even the inside of the sleep sack / bag?

I use a product that is applied by soaking the articles you want to treat in the permethrin solution. I treat my sleeping bag and liner that way.

That said, if the manufacturers guidance is to ONLY treat the outside surfaces, I would be reluctant to contradict that advice.

 

[clare kelly]

Do most people spray the permethrin on the INSIDE of their backpack?

I know the bottle of permethrin said to do outside surfaces, like the outside of a sleeping bag and such. Do you think it does harm if you put it on the inside of packs and containers? Or even the inside of the sleep sack / bag?

Permethrin can be very toxic. I react to it and avoid contact. Read the active ingredient and google it

 

[WayWalker]

Please don't spread misleading information like this.

Once dried, the amount of transmission through dry skin is well below toxic levels. I once calculated the amount of the Sawyers spray product that you would need to swallow to reach the LD50 level is about 5 kg. Using a single bottle to spray your gear will not reach that level even if you aren't following the manufacturers application advice exactly.

Once the product has dried, it is quite safe to handle if you are following the advice from the manufacturer, which includes not exposing wet areas of the body to the treated fabric. Sleep with boxers or other pants, and don't cover your mouth, nose or eyes with the treated fabric.

I only speak of my own experience. I only treated the outside of my sleep sak and my pack. The first few uses my mouth got numb like when you inadvertently spray yourself with deet. And it was long dried. Plus as you've explained read and heed the health warnings on the package of permethrin. I do not feel I was being purposely misleading. Only caring for the health of my fellow peregrinos.

 

[WayWalker]

I use a product that is applied by soaking the articles you want to treat in the permethrin solution. I treat my sleeping bag and liner that way.

That said, if the manufacturers guidance is to ONLY treat the outside surfaces, I would be reluctant to contradict that advice.

That's all I was trying to convey Doug. I would appreciate your not accusing me of spreading misleading information. Thank you.

 

[dougfitz]

I only speak of my own experience. I only treated the outside of my sleep sak and my pack. The first few uses my mouth got numb like when you inadvertently spray yourself with deet. And it was long dried. Plus as you've explained read and heed the health warnings on the package of permethrin. I do not feel I was being purposely misleading. Only caring for the health of my fellow peregrinos.

I can only presume there is a sensible explanation for getting any permithrin in your mouth when all the safety advice I see says to avoid that. Whatever the circumstances, it might have been more appropriate to have suggested that members follow the safety instructions and, if they do ingest any permethrin, to seek medical advice.

Your explanation hasn't changed my view of your earlier post. I still think it was misleading.

 

[travelgirl409]

On my recent Camino Portuguese a pilgrim I met had some nasty bites, mostly on her legs. I suggested they were bed bugs but the hospitalero (in a private albergue in Pontevedra) said they were spider bites. They did not have the little blisters nor did they itch. However they were in the the row/clusters that I have experienced with bed bugs. She did treat her belongings. I'd not heard of spider bites in Spain. Is this something to watch out for?

I received 2 spider bites in 2018, but I don’t remember what town. I ended up breaking into hives and went to emergency room in Ponferrada. Steroid shot took care of it.

 

[CarolamS]

I received 2 spider bites in 2018, but I don’t remember what town. I ended up breaking into hives and went to emergency room in Ponferrada. Steroid shot took care of it.

I'm a pretty reactive person. It's good to hear that your problem was recognised and helped in Spain. Did you know they were spider bites or were you told? Some images suggest you can see the bite marks as 2 little dots.

 

[WayWalker]

I can only presume there is a sensible explanation for getting any permithrin in your mouth when all the safety advice I see says to avoid that. Whatever the circumstances, it might have been more appropriate to have suggested that members follow the safety instructions and, if they do ingest any permethrin, to seek medical advice.

Your explanation hasn't changed my view of your earlier post. I still think it was misleading.

There are other posts talking about personal reactions to pemetherin and you didn't chastise them. I don't appreciate being gaslighted regarding getting a reaction of numbness. It's on a surface that is being touched. Pretty clear to me how that would transfer to other parts of the body. Sorry if I have caused you offense.

 

[WayWalker]

I can only presume there is a sensible explanation for getting any permithrin in your mouth when all the safety advice I see says to avoid that. Whatever the circumstances, it might have been more appropriate to have suggested that members follow the safety instructions and, if they do ingest any permethrin, to seek medical advice.

Your explanation hasn't changed my view of your earlier post. I still think it was misleading.

My original post was "don't put it inside your sleeping bag". The very same advice you gave. I'll leave it there.

 

[dougfitz]

My original post was "don't put it inside your sleeping bag". The very same advice you gave. I'll leave it there.

No it isn't. I said I soaked my sleeping bag and liner, which means there is permethrin treated fabric on the inside of the sleeping bag and the treated liner is also inside the sleeping bag.

That said, I am not going to advise anyone not to follow the manufacturer's instructions.

 

[travelgirl409]

I'm a pretty reactive person. It's good to hear that your problem was recognised and helped in Spain. Did you know they were spider bites or were you told? Some images suggest you can see the bite marks as 2 little dots.

Doctor told me it was a non poisonous spider. It looked like a half moon of tiny teeth marks.

 

[Pathfinder075]

Not sure about Spanish spiders. (BTW what are they called? ). Growing up in Arizona I have experience with spiders, snakes, scorpions and centipedes. Tarantula bites are painful, poison is weak, but their fangs are huge, take a look next time you see one! Snake bites are bad, if a rattlesnake or asp. Scorpion stings can vary from just plain nasty to fatal. The US bark scorpion is small and can be deadly. The black African scorpion is just as bad, but a lot bigger, so I hav3 been told. No experience in that, though. If I had my druthers,( Southern for Tiincatinker) though, I would say chinchas are the best bet, maybe mutant chinchas?

The only poisonous and potentially bad spiders are the Brown Recluse which is also endemic to most the Americas and the Mediterranean Black Widow which apparently isn't anywhere near as poisonous as say the Aussie Red Back. Then all the False Widows that are more annoying.

Yes their are Tarantulas, but if you look hard enough for anything you will find it. I saw one on the section over the mountains from Foncebadon.

Snakes on the other hand their is an Asp that is found in the Pyrenees, which is apparently quite venomous, enough that a bite has a chance of being fatal.

The 5 Most Venomous & Dangerous Snakes Found in Spain

Thought you would be free from snakes in Spain? Well, think again. Here are five of the most venomous snakes you may encounter.

travelsnippet.com

12 Snakes in Spain: What You Need to Know - Our Spanish Life

Various species of snake can be found in Spain - and a number of these are venomous. We cover what you need to know about snakes in Spain.

ourspanishlife.com

Scorpions, I've never seen one, but i haven't looked either. I've camped the meseta areas a few times without seeing anything.

I think the hornets and wasps are the main dangerous thing you will come across. I've seen some really big hornets around Bilbao. Not asian hornet level, but similar lengths. Since the Camino is often off the beaten track, the chances of coming across nests is probably fairly high. My parents said their were loads around Irache a few years back. After i got as far as Ponferrada, I tended to see less hornets and more wasps.