The Story of Madam Bernat

[Pat Beals]

Hello Everyone,
I am in SJPDP staying in Maison E Bernat and somewhere in my fuzzy memory is a story about Madam Bernat who people had to go to and explain why they were walking to Santiago and she would determine if you were a true pilgrim or not.

I'm sure I don't have the story correct or even the whole story. Would someone please fill in the blanks or head me in the right direction, please? I have tried Gooling it, but no success.

Thanks, Buen Camino.

 

[Bradypus]

It might be worth asking the owners of the property. However, I think you may have in mind one of two other characters: one fictional, the other very definitely real. In his book "The Pilgrimage" ("O Diário de Um Mago") Paulo Coelho has a character called Madame Lourdes (or in some translations 'Madame Savin') who receives the main character very gruffly until he mentions the password of a secret society. After that she blesses him and arranges for a guide to accompany him. Many people believe that Madame Lourdes is a fictionalised version of the very real and frankly no less intimidating Madame Debril - a lady who was for years the secretary of the local Amis de Saint Jacques and who was the one-woman predecessor of the current pilgrim office there. She would interview prospective pilgrims very thoroughly and only issued credencials to those she deemed worthy pilgrims. Many were turned away empty handed. I made the mistake of disturbing her at lunchtime which did not improve my chances. After mentioning a well-known Camino personality of the day with whom I had a very slight connection and who she clearly disapproved of she promptly refused me a Credencial and told me I could probably get one in Roncesvalles

 

[Pat Beals]

Thank you so much! I knew I didn't have it right. I love your story. You are lucky to have met her.

 

[gerardcarey]

From chapter 2 of Jack Hitt's book "OFF THE ROAD - A Modern-day Walk Down the Pilgrim's Route Into Spain."
"Madame Debril, the Governess of Pilgrims, lives among the older houses on narrow cobble streets within the wall, number 44, rue de la Citadel."

Jack's details her reputation and describes his meeting with her. It takes up a fair proportion of chapter 2.
Could this be the person you are after?
EDIT: APPARENTLY IT IS!
Regards
Gerard

 

[Bradypus]

Here we are January 23, 2009.
View attachment 35807

@mspath I think that Mme Jeanine Curuchet and Mme Jeanne Debril are two different ladies. Fairly sure that Mme Debril died many years ago.

 

[mspath]

Mea culpa. I have deleted my erroneous posts.

 

[Bradypus]

After some searching online I learned that Madame Debril died in May 2000. The magazine of the Swiss Amis du Chemin de Saint-Jacques printed a short and affectionate tribute to her in their May 2001 magazine. The Nederlands Genootschap van Sint Jacob printed a rather longer portrait of Madame Debril in a magazine in 2007.

http://www.viajacobi4.ch/Archives/Ultreia/Ultreia_27_2001_1.pdf
https://www.santiago.nl/sites/default/files/mediatheek/Jacobsstaf_2007_76.pdf

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Imagine the outrage and screams of injustice if she was on duty today. The presumptuous old harpy JUDGED peoples' caminos!! Unthinkable!

 

[Al the optimist]

Just noticed the stamp Rebecca. Don't recall seeing it before . Is it new or am Ishouls I change my handle to ALTheAlzheimer?

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Imagine the outrage and screams of injustice if she was on duty today. The presumptuous old harpy JUDGED peoples' caminos!! Unthinkable!

We could create a POH Award, or strike a medal...certainly there should be T shirts.

 

[Bradypus]

We could create a POH Award, or strike a medal...certainly there should be T shirts.

Care to put your life on the line @JohnnieWalker and nominate a shortlist of candidates?

 

[Kanga]

We may have to start a new thread. I want to know the judging criteria. So I can make sure my next camino complies.

 

[Al the optimist]

No one could set up in judgement on you dear.

 

[VNwalking]

Imagine the outrage and screams of injustice if she was on duty today. The presumptuous old harpy JUDGED peoples' caminos!! Unthinkable!

We may have to start a new thread. I want to know the judging criteria. So I can make sure my next camino complies.

Well, since we all carry around our own internalized (and unique) ideas about those are, you can choose for yourself, @Kanga! But mum's the word, lest someone else takes umbrage and decides to pick a fight.

 

[gerardcarey]

No one could set up in judgement on you dear.

But perhaps they should on me.
I know without a doubt that my reaction to Madame Debril's oft quoted abrasive demeanour would have elicited an at least equaly vociferous response.
My blood boils quickly, much too quickly according to some, when injustice or even the more simple 'rudeness' is perceived.
I would have it no other way.
Regards
Gerard

 

[Bradypus]

Imagine the outrage and screams of injustice if she was on duty today. The presumptuous old harpy JUDGED peoples' caminos!! Unthinkable!

I know without a doubt that my reaction to Madame Debril's off quoted abrasive demeanour would have elicited an at least equaly vociferous response.
My blood boils quickly, much too quickly according to some, when injustice or even the more simple 'rudeness' is perceived.

As someone who met Madame Debril - albeit very briefly - and met with her disapproval I think I should say that my own response was rather different. I do not think that her judgments were arbitrary or capricious. My own impression was that she had a deeply seated personal understanding of what pilgrimage should be and felt a duty to defend that concept. She would certainly have had no time for the relativism of "it's MY camino". Although I walked away from her door chastened and empty-handed I also did so with respect for her integrity.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Coelho has a Madame Lourdes who he found to be a man (in the translation I have), which led to a gipsy and the Devil.

MacLaine had a Mme. De Brill, apparently her spelling of Debril.

Debril was referenced in this old thread:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...ce-villafranca-del-bierzo-22-24th-july.11295/

 

[Gwendolyn]

Hello Everyone,
I am in SJPDP staying in Maison E Bernat and somewhere in my fuzzy memory is a story about Madam Bernat who people had to go to and explain why they were walking to Santiago and she would determine if you were a true pilgrim or not.

I'm sure I don't have the story correct or even the whole story. Would someone please fill in the blanks or head me in the right direction, please? I have tried Gooling it, but no success.

Thanks, Buen Camino.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Hello Everyone,
I am in SJPDP staying in Maison E Bernat and somewhere in my fuzzy memory is a story about Madam Bernat who people had to go to and explain why they were walking to Santiago and she would determine if you were a true pilgrim or not.

I'm sure I don't have the story correct or even the whole story. Would someone please fill in the blanks or head me in the right direction, please? I have tried Gooling it, but no success.

Thanks, Buen Camino.

I had the pleasure of meeting her and being vetted by her. She was intimidating and definitely a guard of the camino. She would have pilgrims waiting at her apartment for her. All the pilgrims had letters from churches or credential from the Confraternity of St James. Not us Americans, so she made us wait for last. As we stood in her studio apartment that was quite small but full if books and small church paraphernalia she asked serious questions. We are not church people however we were more if a spiritual walker and she was skeptical. I had paid an American group called friends of America that was taking money for credentials that were never sent, lucky that I had the print outs with the info. My mother and I at 22 and 42 started a journey that most new very little. Both our credentials have her signature