They still ride horses, don't they?

[dbier]

Ok, so I'm in trouble now...

I paid FindPenguins to make a book out of my "proof of life" posts to my husband during my Camino Primitivo, and was showing it to my brother-in-law, his wife, and their teenage daughter before Thanksgiving dinner. (BTW, shameless plug for FindPenguins - great quality book).

In the process, I mentioned that for Compostela, the requirement is for a bicigrino to travel 200km, but for a person (and for a horseback rider), the requirement was 100km.

Too late, I realized that my horse-mad niece was now interested, to the point where she turned to her mom and dad and asked if the horse she rode every week could be shipped to Spain.

After we quit chuckling and pointing out that none of us made that kind of money, I realized that I had *no* idea whether people still rode horseback to Santiago, where they stayed, how they took care of their horses, etc.

So, esteemed group mind - is there a company that does horse pilgrimages? Or are the remaining horse pilgrims Spanish natives with deep knowledge of stabling locations and requirements? I owe my slightly exasperated brother in law an answer... ;-)

 

[ivar]

I do not know anything about them, but I found this:

Camino de Santiago on horseback. Compostela route on horseback. French Way

We organize horseback riding routes along the Camino de Santiago French, Portuguese, Via de la Plata, English and other options.

www.caminosantiagoacaballo.com

 

[ShoshTrvls]

There are definitely riders on the Camino. The one company that I’m familiar with, other than just to ride up to O’Cebreiro, is The Pilgrim Horse. I rode with them only one day but they do longer trips. The horses are well trained and well cared for. https://www.thepilgrimhorse.com/

 

[dbier]

Many many thanks. He may forgive me someday.... ;-)

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Spoke to a group of Spanish riders in Sobrado back in July that were heading to Santiago, they were staying with acquaintances / horse club? members along the way. They were covering between 50 and 70 km per day - less when they hit the beaches, which apparently the horses loved!
Friends of mine saw them ride into (and out of) Santiago the next day.
Good luck

 

[JabbaPapa]

Most of the horseback pilgrims you see on the Camino are in organised tours and riding only some short section(s) without any packs or anything -- but occasionally you see one or some who are the real deal.

Most impressive one I've ever seen was in 2021 ; a solo Spanish horseback pilgrim (excellent rider !!) leading his pack horse behind his riding horse with gestures and vocal commands, no rein, in the meseta between Burgos and León.

---

As to your niece, well, you're not made of money ; but it must be possible to hire an appropriate mount locally ?

 

[dbier]

To all, thank you. I saw a couple of mountain bikers on the Primitivo (one of whom had to truncate her trip due to aggravating her knee), but the only horses I saw were pastured up on the Hospitales route.

The Spanish pilgrim with the well trained mounts sounds awesome to witness.

Can't say my niece has a strong motivation as a pilgrim yet....but I'm happy to provide temptation, now that I have a reasonable set of alternatives for her father to consider. Local would definitely be the way to go, but since they don't speak Spanish, I thought sending them off with Gronze was a little too minimalist. ;-).

 

[henrythedog]

I’m often wrong (so often that you could reliably make money by betting against me.) But I thought it was 200km on an ‘orse.

 

[C clearly]

I’m often wrong (so often that you could reliably make money by betting against me.) But I thought it was 200km on an ‘orse.

You are wrong The Pilgrim Office website says 100 km by horse.

I have seen riders on the VDLP, but I think it is a major operation likely to be done in sections with major support! I have no ideal how many might reach Santiago.

 

[Purky]

Just wanted to say that I am pleasantly impressed with your play on the title of this thread, and that I see what you did there.

 

[Flog]

I've often seen a group of ten or so riders on horseback, usually quite a disperate group, and sometimes not properly kitted out, in the middle of Praza Obradoiro around 8 o'clock in the morning (I think to comply with local by-laws, they have to be out of the city, and all the shit picked up and everything by 9am or so). If I see one of them attempting an awkward selfie, I might approach and offer to take a group photo with one of their phones, and they're always delighted. They don't always give me the impression of being pilgrims or having been on the horses long, though I've never asked them how far they've come.. I must do, one of the days...

I'm guessing there must be stables with horses for rent kept close to Santiago, perhaps they're trailered out further afield to be ridden back?

 

[DoughnutANZ]

I met a gentleman riding a beautiful stallion just after O Cebrerio on the Frances. I was too impressed with his horse to bother asking any questions about where they were staying.

There is, apparently, a book that is now about 12 ish years old (so a bit outdated) that was a sort of guide to riding the Frances and self managing the journey but I don't know the title or author.

That is a guess at the age of the book. It could well be way out!

 

[ShoshTrvls]

I've often seen a group of ten or so riders on horseback, usually quite a disperate group, and sometimes not properly kitted out, in the middle of Praza Obradoiro around 8 o'clock in the morning (I think to comply with local by-laws, they have to be out of the city, and all the shit picked up and everything by 9am or so). If I see one of them attempting an awkward selfie, I might approach and offer to take a group photo with one of their phones, and they're always delighted. They don't give me the impression of being pilgrims or having been on the horses long, though I've never asked them how far they've come.. I must do, one of the days...

I'm guessing there must be stables with horses for rent kept close to Santiago, perhaps they're trailered out further afield to be ridden back?

The stables of The Pilgrim Horse are between Sarria and Portomarin, and I believe they often have groups that ride Sarria to SdC over 4 days, with bags transported.

 

[Flog]

So they must have facilities at each stage and at Santiago, no? To arrive on the square fresh looking shortly after dawn, they can't have come far?

 

[ShoshTrvls]

So they must have facilities at each stage and at Santiago, no? To arrive on the square fresh looking shortly after dawn, they can't have come far?

Yes. I think their last stop is in Monte de Gozo.

 

[henrythedog]

You are wrong The Pilgrim Office website says 100 km by horse.

I have seen riders on the VDLP, but I think it is a major operation likely to be done in sections with major support! I have no ideal how many might reach Santiago.

I did tell you I would be wrong.

(Note: I have no idea what these ‘emojis’ actually mean, I just pick one which feels right - so apologies if I’ve just said ‘your dental appointment is due’ or something)

 

[Tincatinker]

= I just made a joke
= I just made a smug (insider) joke
= my joke is so funny I’ve wet myself
= the Moderators didn’t get my joke

The rest is just improvisation

 

[trecile]

I’m often wrong (so often that you could reliably make money by betting against me.) But I thought it was 200km on an ‘orse.

You are wrong The Pilgrim Office website says 100 km by horse.

It seems like more work to go by horse than walking since you have to shelter and feed it.

 

[Tincatinker]

It seems like more work to go by horse than walking since you have to shelter and feed it.

Tell that to John Wayne…

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I did tell you I would be wrong.

it’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.

 

[trecile]

it’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.

No, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.

From the Pilgrim's Office:

To get the “Compostela” you must: Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle.

The Compostela: accreditation of the pilgrimage to Santiago

The “Compostela“, the accreditation of the pilgrimage to the Tomb of St. James.

oficinadelperegrino.com

 

[Peregrinopaul]

No, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.

Sorry - I was being flippant!

 

[JabbaPapa]

I think at one point it was 200K by horse, but then they changed it to 100K.

Here's a site that gives both versions of the story :

https://todosloshechos.es/cuantos-km-hay-que-hacer-para-recibir-la-compostelana#:~:text=Entre%20las%20condiciones%20exigidas%20para%20la%20obtenci%C3%B3n%20de,sellos%2C%20se%20han%20recorrido%20c%C3%B3mo%20m%C3%ADnimo%20estos%20kil%C3%B3metro.

¿Cuántos km son para la compostelana?​

Entre las condiciones exigidas para la obtención de la Compostela es requisito indispensable haber recorrido 100 km a pie o 200 en bicicleta o caballo. Para ello la Credencial debe mostrar que desde el punto de partida hasta la llegada, mediante sellos, se han recorrido cómo mínimo estos kilómetros.

¿Cuándo te dan la compostelana?​

Lo obtienen los peregrinos que cubran los últimos 100 kilómetros a pie o a caballo, y los que en bicicleta recorran los últimos 200. En ambos casos debe portarse la credencial oficial de peregrino con uno o más sellos diarios de los albergues o las parroquias recorridas por cualquiera de sus rutas.

---

So it seems clear to me that something did change at one point. In any case it's 100K not 200K ; paragraph 1 hereabove is wrong, and paragraph 2 is correct.

The website seems to have put the corrected text into the wrong place, and left the old version in place where the corrected text should have gone.

 

[David Tallan]

No, it's 100 km on foot or by horse.

From the Pilgrim's Office:

To get the “Compostela” you must: Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.
Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle.

The Compostela: accreditation of the pilgrimage to Santiago

The “Compostela“, the accreditation of the pilgrimage to the Tomb of St. James.

oficinadelperegrino.com

in response to

it’s not often you’re wrong, but you’re right this time.

who was, himself, responding to

I did tell you I would be wrong.

I think Peregrinopaul was saying that henrythedog was correct in acknowledging his error. So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.

 

[JabbaPapa]

So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.

We'd need a horseback peregrino emoji/smiley to really emphasise this.

hmmmm ....

 

[AlpacaArte]

I met a gentleman riding a beautiful stallion just after O Cebrerio on the Frances. I was too impressed with his horse to bother asking any questions about where they were staying.

There is, apparently, a book that is now about 12 ish years old (so a bit outdated) that was a sort of guide to riding the Frances and self managing the journey but I don't know the title or author.

That is a guess at the age of the book. It could well be way out!

This may be the book you mean - Spanish Pilgrimage: A Canter to St.James,Robin Hanbury-Tenison

It wasn’t the most scintillating read but it shows the huge amount of preparation and back up support required.

 

[henrythedog]

in response to

who was, himself, responding to

I think Peregrinopaul was saying that henrythedog was correct in acknowledging his error. So, at this point, everyone was in agreement that it is 100km by horse.

I’m pleased that someone is paying attention. You’re right, of course (or wrong, if that’s right in this case). Horse: 100km.

 

[Gringazolana]

 

[Philtration]

There was a guy who brought his horse and dog from Germany in 21'. I guess he would be an equestrino? Saw them coming and again on their way headed back home. I heard the dog was trained to hold the reins, but didn't see it myself.

 

[dick bird]

Does it have to be a horse? How about mule, donkey or if you really want to be mediaeval, camel?

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I can just imagine the look on @dbiers niece's face when she hears the suggestion that she might want to consider riding in on a camel....

 

[markie6]

I can just imagine the look on @dbiers niece's face when she hears the suggestion that she might want to consider riding in on a camel....

you think she'd get the hump ?

I like the idea of O'Cebreiro on horseback but it's not for me and have also seen a few donkeys and mules on various stages of the Frances. 1 who had a dog riding the donkey too ( Jack Russell )

 

[Kathar1na]

Do the last 100 km on foot or horseback, or the last 200 km by bicycle

I, too, used to think that riding on horseback belongs to the same category as biking and that walking on foot was a different category. Until I learnt how long it takes to cover the same distance. Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider. I should have known because the peregrin@s on horses that I did encounter on the Camino Francés did not exactly gallop past me.

From the internet: Normal human walking speed is around 3-4 miles (4.8-6.4 km) per hour. Horses have four basic gaits, but only the walk can be sustained for long periods of time. The horse's four-beat walk averages 6.4 kilometers per hour (4.0 mph).

Camel speed is pretty much the same. I should know because I walked with them on a trip once. For about 5 days or so. With them, not on them .

It’s about the time spent on Camino pilgrimage, people, not about the distance covered.

 

[Sue127]

View attachment 160472

Thank you. I don't remember seeing that.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I, too, used to think that riding on horseback belongs to the same category as biking and that walking on foot was a different category. Until I learnt how long it takes to cover the same distance. Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider. I should have known because the peregrin@s on horses that I did encounter on the Camino Francés did not exactly gallop past me.

From the internet: Normal human walking speed is around 3-4 miles (4.8-6.4 km) per hour. Horses have four basic gaits, but only the walk can be sustained for long periods of time. The horse's four-beat walk averages 6.4 kilometers per hour (4.0 mph).

Camel speed is pretty much the same. I should know because I walked with them on a trip once. for about 5 days or so. With them, not on them .

It’s about the time spent on Camino pilgrimage, people, not about the distance covered.

The time Factor makes a lot of sense for the Compostela.

Although I have to say that like us humans not all horses are created equal. I'm no equestrian - that is my sister's field of expertise. When I saw the horses on camino I sent her a photo via WhatsApp, she like I was curious to know what sort of distance they were covering each day.
She advised me that the horses many people keep for weekend riding would generally only cover around 30- 40 km a day, ( as above, much like us humans ) her's would easily do 70 to 90 km, and a trained endurance horse comfortably 150 kilometers per day - although generally for limited periods eg three days at a time. She wasn't at all surprised that they walked into Santiago the next morning - around 50 km away. She pointed out that after a few weeks on the Norte they would have been in peak condition, especially if their riders had been responsible and done initial training with them first!
1 point I should mention - they were not carrying any equipment, they had a backup vehicle (complete with trailer in case of injuries). A really nice bunch of young guys, sadly I didn't get to speak with them for long because the horses were absolutely 'rearing' to go!

 

[Kathar1na]

For what it's worth, I see on this website that the last 260+ kilometres of the Via de la Plata are recognised as a Ruta Ecuestre Xacobea. Does anybody know more about this? I guess it means that the infrastructure of this section is geared more specifically to peregrin@s on horseback? The site also mentions that a permit from the local police of Santiago is required to enter the city and in particular the old town and the Obradoiro square in front of the Cathedral as a pilgrim on horseback, and usually it has to be during the morning hours.

 

[kelleymac]

Good morning,

There are a number of riding tour groups that offer an equestrian camino. You and your niece can spend hours (like me) looking at rides at equitour, and hiddentrails.com, and unicorntrails.com, and also look at the pilgrim horse guy mentioned above. They all have camino rides in Spain and some also in France.
I looked at these and finally decided to walk because I didn't have the money, I wanted to go at my own pace, I wasn't interested in staying at posh places. Mostly people with horses have more moolah than I do and want to pay for pampering that I can't afford and honestly don't want on a pilgrimage. -I do miss equine companionship while walking though.
Right-- I'm off to walk each of my horses over to their pasture for the day, and then to muck out the stalls. brrr. It's a beautiful cold dawn here.

 

[Kathar1na]

Just for info from the link posted earlier (for organised group trips but probably similar for personal individually organised trips), for example from Sarria for 6 days / 5 nights and from Roncesvalles for 29 days / 28 nights:

Riding between 25-35 km for 6-7 hours a day (normal mode).​

​

The trails can also be done in a slower mode; 20-25 kms during 6-7 hours per day (slow mode).​

​

On the last day it will be possible to go on horseback to the Plaza Obradoiro (Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela) from 7 to 9 am.​

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Wow, I would never have thought that I walked as fast/ far as a horse in a day!
All I can say is, I wouldn't want to get stuck behind a group of them. Could get messy .... .

 

[Gringazolana]

Thank you. I don't remember seeing that.

I thought it was pretty cool that it was a free albergue! And it was around 5-10km from Santiago too. I also had seen a few days earlier some peregrinos’ horses casually munching grass in the center of Palas de Rei. This was on about May 30th of this year. I know there were horses that had gone before me almost every day; you know how I knew!

 

[davejsy]

I follow 2 or 3 riding places on Instagram that do Camino rides. They are based around Cantabria/Asturias where I spend a lot of time, so hence why I follow.
Interestingly, I used the Buen Camino App on my recent CF and the App shows Albergues that accept horses!!
I'm a horse person, but can't say it would really appeal to me.

 

[kelleymac]

The time Factor makes a lot of sense for the Compostela.

Although I have to say that like us humans not all horses are created equal. I'm no equestrian - that is my sister's field of expertise. When I saw the horses on camino I sent her a photo via WhatsApp, she like I was curious to know what sort of distance they were covering each day.
She advised me that the horses many people keep for weekend riding would generally only cover around 30- 40 km a day, ( as above, much like us humans ) her's would easily do 70 to 90 km, and a trained endurance horse comfortably 150 kilometers per day - although generally for limited periods eg three days at a time. She wasn't at all surprised that they walked into Santiago the next morning - around 50 km away. She pointed out that after a few weeks on the Norte they would have been in peak condition, especially if their riders had been responsible and done initial training with them first!
1 point I should mention - they were not carrying any equipment, they had a backup vehicle (complete with trailer in case of injuries). A really nice bunch of young guys, sadly I didn't get to speak with them for long because the horses were absolutely 'rearing' to go!

I'm working on endurance riding and getting me in shape as well as my horse. So many people think "Oh, you just sit on a horse and the horse does all the work." Those people obviously don't ride daily.

Here's an idea! Howabout an endurance race across Spain on the Camino? There is one across Mongolia, why not Spain?

Kate

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I'm working on endurance riding and getting me in shape as well as my horse. So many people think "Oh, you just sit on a horse and the horse does all the work." Those people obviously don't ride daily.

Here's an idea! Howabout an endurance race across Spain on the Camino? There is one across Mongolia, why not Spain?

Kate

That would be quite a race a thousand km or more across Spain.... Although as I understand it the mongolians change steeds every 40 km or something like that - my neighbour was training for endurance racing this year and I remember she had the same horse for every day of her endurance race. Don't know how many kilometers or days that was for though ( I think 400 km over 3 days? )
What's your experience with it?

 

[Anamiri]

you think she'd get the hump ?

I like the idea of O'Cebreiro on horseback but it's not for me and have also seen a few donkeys and mules on various stages of the Frances. 1 who had a dog riding the donkey too ( Jack Russell )

Not being a rider, I found taking a horse to O Cebreiro was harder than walking.

 

[David Tallan]

Travelling on horseback is not much faster than walking on foot and it takes a walker about the same number of days to cover 100 km as a rider.

That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.

 

[JabbaPapa]

That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.

There was also horse and cart/carriage.

 

[David Tallan]

There was also horse and cart/carriage.

Did horses pulling carts/carriages in the time of the Codex Calixtinus have significantly greater endurance than horses carrying riders?

Also, for whatever it is worth, the medieval illuminations of pilgrims I recall (from Canterbury Tales manuscripts) show the pilgrims riding horses not being pulled in a cart or carriage. Not that I doubt that most medieval pilgrims without their own horses would catch a ride in a cart if one were offered.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Did horses pulling carts/carriages in the time of the Codex Calixtinus have significantly greater endurance than horses carrying riders?

You have to remember that people would switch horses every 25 to 40K.

Also, for whatever it is worth, the medieval illuminations of pilgrims I recall (from Canterbury Tales manuscripts) show the pilgrims riding horses not being pulled in a cart or carriage.

One reason for that is that travelling by such means was looked down upon as a peasant means of transport, though women even high-born, used it too. In the Mediaeval Romances, being publicly carted off to prison or to execution was considered in itself as ruinous of personal honour, which persisted until after the French Revolution -- Aristocrats taken to prison or the guillotine were often transported there by cart.

There are quite a few references to pilgrims ill, or otherwise physically incapable of walking or riding, using such means. And to some pilgrims using carts pulled by cattle/oxen.

Apart from that, Clergy, traders, and other non-noble frequent long-distance travellers would tend to use the hardier mules rather than horses.

It has to be said against carts and carriages, if your Camino route took you into rough terrain and along smaller paths rather than major roads (with two-way traffic), and towards Sanctuaries out in the wilderness along your Way, you were better off riding or walking.

It also has to be said that on the pilgrimage routes to Compostela and Jerusalem specifically, Rome had its its own particulars, many among even the wealthier pilgrims would deliberately humble themselves for the journey there, and walk instead of ride, and travel with only a small amount of money for basic needs. This is well-attested by multiple studies. They'd freshen up upon reaching their destination, then travel home much faster by riding in stages or by ship.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

You have to remember that people would switch horses every 25 to 40K.

NOT correct. Only a Kings messenger or some other government official would use this system on a regular basis although the rich could of course avail themselves of the service if they were in a hurry. But remember, a good horse was highly prized.
From medieval times an Inn was required to have a horse available at no more than two hours notice. Said horse would be ridden to the next Inn, generally around 10/12 miles away (15 - 20km) and swapped again. In this way the horse could be ridden at speed.

Horses were valuable animals, a good horse even more so. Even knights seldom kept more than a handful, - one to ride, one for their squire or servant, a pack horse and perhaps a spare . Although it would of course depend upon how wealthy they were.

The rich of course kept them not just for transport but as a status symbol.

Pilgrims wealthy enough to set out on horseback would hope to complete the entire journey there and back with the same horse. They may have pack horses with them, or provisions might be towed behind in a cart. Which would of course slow them down. Brigands were a very real issue, so many would ride in groups when possible, perhaps even employing guards. At times there would be nowhere to stop overnight so they would have to camp, and they had to allow time for the horse/ donkeys/mules to graze along the way. A major town or city would often be a rest stop for two or three days. The horses would be well cared for. If injured it wasn't unknown for the riders to wait for them to be, or pay for their care until they could return for them.
A side note - during times of warfare a good horse could be worth as much as 20 cattle if not more ! The average person's life was worth Way Way less than a horse.... .

 

[Roland49]

On my CF in 2019 I met a grumpy spanish Caballero right after Najera and a german rider on my bus to Porto. She was amazed by her experience, used a organized pilgrimage with helpers for saddling and horse care with prebooked stables and paddocks.

 

[JabbaPapa]

NOT correct. Only a Kings messenger or some other government official would use this system on a regular basis although the rich could of course avail themselves of the service if they were in a hurry. But remember, a good horse was highly prized.

Depends where you're talking about, but on the main roads in Southern Europe it was definitely possible. Which is where we're talking about. As to Northern Europe, you have more of a point, as there the Roman infrastructures collapsed more extensively than in the South, including the support infrastructures along the roads.

And you're talking about "the rich", except that of course only "the rich" would do a Camino on horseback in the first place.

Pilgrims wealthy enough to set out on horseback would hope to complete the entire journey there and back with the same horse.

Depends which ones, and which pilgrimage.

Certainly in Italy you could make your way to Rome using nothing but horses rented at Inns, and Montaigne in the 16th Century made his way there from Bordeaux not with his own horses (and he was a horse-mad too, like OP's daughter) but ones rented along the way. Occasionally, he'd hire a boat to pass a lake, leave the horses behind and get fresh ones on the other side. Though he and his followers seem to have used a single horse each for their return trip from Italy to Bordeaux.

They may have pack horses with them, or provisions might be towed behind in a cart. Which would of course slow them down. Brigands were a very real issue, so many would ride in groups when possible, perhaps even employing guards.

Which Century are you talking about ?

The use of horses & mules etc on Christian pilgrimage routes stretches between about 3rd & 4th Century to the early 20th century, plus exceptionally to this very day.

 

[Kathar1na]

That's interesting. Some of the stages in the Codex Calixtinus are pretty long and I always assumed that was because they were riding not walking.

So did I before I learnt that Book V of the Codex Calixtinus was not used as a pilgrim’s guidebook like today’s Brierley or the WisePilgrim app and that the title that was given to it in a 1938 translation from Latin into French (“Guide du Pèlerin”) is a misnomer or at least a modern invention but it is a title that stuck. The stages are not daily stages.

 

[JabbaPapa]

The stages are not daily stages.

Mediaeval and Renaissance pilgrim itineraries (not dissimilar to the some of the photocopied handouts provided at the Pilgrim Office in SJPP) give a far more accurate picture of the stages people walked -- spoiler alert, very similar to nowadays.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

you're talking about "the rich", except that of course only "the rich" would do a Camino on horseback in the first place.

A very valid point. I have to admit I was thinking of those wealthy enough to afford a horse as being rich, I used the term far too loosely.
As to your point about Northern vs Southern Europe - I carelessly didn't even really think of that. You are of course correct and were they wealthy enough to afford a horse they probably would have taken ship directly to Spain, and then could have proceeded as you've described above.
With my ancestral heritage being English I foolishly thought of people departing from England across the Channel to France and proceeding accordingly. And the few books describing the journeys that I have read were then much as I have outlined above.
I stand corrected, thank you !

 

[JabbaPapa]

I stand corrected, thank you !

No problem, as I am located in Southern Europe I was myself not thinking about the North, and your post helped clarify things !!

 

[Kathar1na]

Mediaeval and Renaissance pilgrim itineraries (not dissimilar to the some of the photocopied handouts provided at the Pilgrim Office in SJPP) give a far more accurate picture of the stages people walked -- spoiler alert, very similar to nowadays.

For clarification: When I wrote that "The stages are not daily stages" I was referring to the so-called Pilgrim's Guide of the Codex Calixtinus and it was written around more or less 1140-1180.

I have read a number of later actual pilgrim guides, or detailed narratives penned by individual pilgrims, and I checked a few to refresh my memory before I wrote the post. None of them defines or mentions "daily" stages.

What they do mention is the distance between towns, see for example the itinerary of Hermann Künig von Vach of 1495 (available online in French translations if you find the original too difficult to decipher and to understand ) or Guntzinger of 1654. They indicate distances in miles or legs or whatever reference frame was used at the time. But that is 300+ years and 500+ years later than the description in the CC !!! The thirteen so-called stages of the CC do not mention distance between towns or length of stages as measured in days or in miles.

They rode to Santiago then and they ride to Santiago now, and we now know that it does not take 13 days to ride from Roncesvalles to Santiago but 30 days on horseback. In normal mode.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I have read a number of later actual pilgrim guides, or detailed narratives of individual pilgrims, and I checked a few to refresh my memory before I wrote the post. None of them defines or mentions "daily" stages.

Some of the narratives that I've read do give detail on the daily stages of the individual pilgrims who wrote them, but you're of course quite right about no daily "stages" being "defined" by them, just as no individual Live from the Camino thread in here would do so either. They're just personal accounts of individual pilgrimages.

The itineraries are nevertheless indicative of the villages, towns, and cities where pilgrims might stop for the night, though in some narratives some pilgrims talk of sleeping in other locations than those found in the most common itineraries.

Anyway, they rode then to Santiago and they ride now to Santiago and we now know that it does not take 13 days to ride to Santiago but 30 days on horseback. In normal mode.

Exactly.

 

[Kathar1na]

Number of pilgrims on horseback who received a Compostela by year:

2023: 600​

2022: 550​

2019: 400​

2011: 350​

2010: 1.230​

2004: 1.670​

2003: 400​

2004 and 2010 were Jacobean Holy Years. Source: Oficina del Peregrino Statistics webpage. Numbers are rounded.

 

[Corned Beef]

@dbier Another pic for your horse-mad niece. This was taken outside the Pilgrim Office in early September while a pilgrim came in for their Compostela . Dogs, as you can see, can do it too.

 

[kelleymac]

That would be quite a race a thousand km or more across Spain.... Although as I understand it the mongolians change steeds every 40 km or something like that - my neighbour was training for endurance racing this year and I remember she had the same horse for every day of her endurance race. Don't know how many kilometers or days that was for though ( I think 400 km over 3 days? )
What's your experience with it?

I ride at a stable that focuses on trail and endurance riding (not dressage). Though we do go on hunter pace rides for fun. (Well, me for fun, others for competition.) I've taken the Endurance Camps there. So I get to set up a tent, put up a small electric fence paddock, care for my horse, and go on rides, learning to pass other horses, ride alone, get the horse to drink, check their vitals, etc. -- On the actual endurance races, so far I have been ground crew at the vet checks. Helping to cool down the horse, get food into the human, etc. I am hoping to ride in the Hector Half Hundred this coming September (that's 50 miles) in one day. One hundred miles takes two days. So, 400km (300 miles) over three days is one heck of a challenge! I'm eyeing a ride across the highlands for next year... But can I ride daily for a week or ten days?

I would think that to ride the whole CF, horses would have to changed and/or rest days included.

There were places on the camino where I thought "What a place for a gallop!" And throughout my time on the Via Podiensis I was wanting to be riding.