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Well @senora1 - your headline caught my attention. I would say if anyone on the forum or ‘in real life’ treats you with scorn for your choice, that says something about them - not you.
Welcome. Buen camino.
Honestly, to me walking seems easier than biking on many parts of the Camino!I know some will think we are taking the easy route.
I had tried to search Ebike posts but really didn’t see much…thanks thoughI've tagged your thread with "Bicycling." If you click on the tag at the top of the thread you will find other threads about cycling on the Camino, some with information about ebikes.
There is also a separate Bicycling on the Camino subfourm
I would love to walk again. I have arthritis in both knees and my surgery failed so I don’t really have that optionHonestly, to me walking seems easier than biking on many parts of the Cami
The forum has all sorts of characters, as does every community.Mostly I agree however I would like to use this forum to gather information and really don’t want to have to feel defensive…
Thanks for that!The forum has all sorts of characters, as does every community.
Sure, some may think their way is the only or better way - the true pilgrimage, whatever that is etc. And a few seem to like to voice those opinions in terms that show little regard for the other. BUT those people are in a small minority. Most people are respectful of other’s choices and, more than that, they want to be helpful.
Do try to feel relaxed about asking your questions..
You might try search terms like "electric bike", "e-bike", "e bike", "electric scooter" etc to increase the number of results. If any forum member's views on this should be respected, I think it is @t2andreo's. Put his forum name on the 'Posted by' box in the search dialog.I had tried to search Ebike posts but really didn’t see much…thanks though
Go however you can go, @senora1. That's nobody's business but your own - and scorn or ridicule say way more about the person dishing them out than about you.I would love to walk again. I have arthritis in both knees and my surgery failed so I don’t really have that option
I've never ridden them, but ebikes look super heavy. So if the battery goes flat they'll probably be a real ***** to pedal uphill. I hope someone who knows something about this will say something about planning around that.You'll be at the mercy of the battery capacity if your knees are not up to it so those sections (see climbs in ft) will be critical.
You might find the attached useful. It includes elevation profiles, alternative routeings for the bumpy bits, routes through cities etc...When we walked from SJPP I 2012 I thought that was the only Way!
I like your idea of taking e bikes!feel compelled to, but am also 3 years older and have a failed knee surgery to deal with.
Agree! It is YOUR Camino.Well @senora1 - your headline caught my attention. I would say if anyone on the forum or ‘in real life’ treats you with scorn for your choice, that says something about them - not you.
Welcome. Buen camino.
I was about to compose a post about The Way, Perceptions and Facts, when, luckily, I reread your post again. You are planning to travel by e-bike in the broad corridor that is known as The Camino de Santiago from Burgos to Santiago and you fear that this plan might be badly received on this forum now and on the field in June of this year. You will not stay in municipal/parochial/donativo albergues.If anyone has helpful suggestions/recommendations, please share. We plan to only stay in private albergue/hotels.
Your Camino, your way. Enjoy.When we walked from SJPP I 2012 I thought that was the only Way!
Yes, on the Camino I was surprised and frightened several times by speeding bikes on the trail that did not slow down at all or announce themselves as they came near me while passing. I have seen a few people run down by bicycles in accidents. The resulting injuries and shock can be serious. The problem is not the bikes, it is the behavior of some riders.Hi, I think what they are concerned about is being conscientious of other pilgrims. Many walkers talk about not hearing bikes coming up behind them and startling them while they are enjoying a peaceful walk. In other posts you hear of pilgrims asking bikers to have bells, or call out ahead of time to alert the walkers to their presence. And this is a welcome habit. So, yes do it your way and enjoy your Camino. Even in my local park when I am walking and a runner or biker comes up it is nice if they call out, or even just slow down, maybe say hello, and move on slowly. Just my opinion.
I've ridden a large part of the Danube path and, particularly in the downstream direction which you are proposing, I doubt you'll need battery assistance much if at all.I'll be interested to see how your Camino pans out as I'd a half formed idea to follow the cycle path that follows the Danube from its source to the sea on an ebike
Buen Camino!
It is not the only way. My only comment about bikes is this - use some common sense. When my wife and I were hiking the CF in September 2017, we were on a rather long downhill stretch. By long, I mean probably at least 500m. The path was maybe 1.5m wide at the most. My wife was about 150m in front of me talking to a fellow pilgrim. I was doing the same - talking with a fellow pilgrim. Suddenly, with NO WARNing, 2 bikers passed us on the left and behind us. They had to have been traveling at least, AT LEAST, 50 km/hr. No verbal shout, no warning bell, nothing. They barely missed me by just centimeters - I was walking as far right as I could. They continued downhill toward my wife and her new friend getting even faster. No warning, no bells, no signal, nothing. I screamed at my wife and she drove off the trail to the right. They never stopped, they never apologized - nothing. I was furious, to say the least. Given that my wife only weighs about 45 kg, if they had hit my wife directly, the impact could have killed or very seriously injured her. So my advice. Get a horn or some sort of LOUD signal device.I know some will think we are taking the easy route. When we walked from SJPP I 2012 I thought that was the only Way!
According to this post from @t2andreo it depends on the type of e-bike used.As it's a motor assisted bike I don't think you'll qualify for a Compostela
The issue of an e-bike being accepted as a ‘bicycle’ for Compostela purposes has been addressed several times before. The bottom line is that any bicycle type conveyance that REQUIRES you to pedal is acceptable. To be required to propel yourself forward is ‘Compostela legal.’
Thus, an electric-assist bicycle that uses a torque sensor to decide when you need the assistance of the auxiliary electric motor is acceptable. However, any electronic bicycle or similar conveyance that can operate in electric-only, throttle controlled mode is NOT legal.
As I understand things on the e-bike market in Europe, a Type I e-bike is ‘legal.’ Type II and Type III e-bikes are not - at least for Compostela purposes. Of course, I am not absolutely up to date on e-bike developments. But the basic premise remains: if you must pedal to move, you are okay. If pedaling is optional as long as the battery has charge, it is not okay.
I have seen security guards at the Pilgrim Office do a quick assessment of arriving e-bikes. I have not yet seen them turn anyone away.
Hope this helps.
Tom
Thanks for the link!Getting back on track, here are downloadable GPX files for you to use in your planning (not mine). It shows that the e-bike will be fine for most of the route (see profiles) but you might want to study the sections from #25 onwards especially up to Tricastella as that's where the climbs are.
You'll be at the mercy of the battery capacity if your knees are not up to it so those sections (see climbs in ft) will be critical.
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We have seen umpteen threads go downhill and being locked because they turned into bells v no bells, bikers v walkers arguments. It would be nice to see this one stay on track.They plan to ride the camino and road and wanted helpful suggestions, i dont see why mentioning use of a bell is not sticking to their topic, it certainly eases relationships and safety between walkers and cyclists sharing one way.
We have a pair ourselves and the range depends on how often you use the high setting. My husband’s battery ran out once after 30 miles but thankfully we had to just Coast downhill to our destination. I’m hoping if we stop for a lengthy lunch we can offer a generous tip and maybe use their outlet for an hour…Go however you can go, @senora1. That's nobody's business but your own - and scorn or ridicule say way more about the person dishing them out than about you.
My main thought about your plans is basically this:
I've never ridden them, but ebikes look super heavy. So if the battery goes flat they'll probably be a real ***** to pedal uphill. I hope someone who knows something about this will say something about planning around that.
Gracias! Very helpfulYou might find the attached useful. It includes elevation profiles, alternative routeings for the bumpy bits, routes through cities etc...
Dennis I really can’t explain it except to say I feel compelled. I feel like I let myself down by giving up after a difficult day 3 years ago. And so off we go…I like your idea of taking e bikes!
To feel compelled - in a positive way or how is it to understand?
Enjoy your time on the Camino!
Dennis
Honesty, because you will be on a bike or an e-bike - you won't be with any particular group of walking pilgrims for more than a day since bike folks tend to go twice the distances, so I wouldn't worry too much! But is it going to be an e-bike that yo can also pedal if you so chose? Then you can just tell people that you use the electric part when you need extra help like going uphillMostly I agree however I would like to use this forum to gather information and really don’t want to have to feel defensive…
Yes Susan I agree with most of what you said. Our Ebikes are pedal assist so if we don’t pedal, they don’t move. If I don’t receive a Compostela but complete the Camino I am okay with that. And thanks for the tip about Molinaseca. My knees still remember that day!I won’t lie, judgement exist on the Camino. There were lots of ebikes in my Oct 2021 Camino. I had only seen one on prior Camino’s. My observations are:
1) Just like non e-bikes please have a bell and realize that many walking pilgrims either don’t have good hearing, are deep in thought or have ebuds and won’t hear you quickly approaching from the behind. I saw a couple of pilgrims taken out. Camino over.
2) There are a number of sections just not appropriate for any bikes ( or bikes at all). Please study the trail or you might find yourself trying to carry a heavy ebike. For example stay on the road down into Molineseca.
3)I thought that you could not use an ebike in the last 100km to receive a compostela as it’s considered motor assisted. I would definitely check into this. I will say this was hard for the walking pilgrims to see an ebike rush by in this section. Most of them still applied for their compostela as it would be on the honor system.
In summary, ebikes are now a part of the Camino and I suspect you will have lots of company. Many a Camino family.
We don’t walk (or ride) in another man’s boots/shoes and I am happy you have found a way to experience the Camino again.
Xali1970 thanks for the good info/suggestions. I’m renting from Cycling-Rentals, now I have a big list of things to ask them!I'm planning on doing the exact same as you: going to Santiago with an ebike, and back and around a few times, but that's another story.
Don't worry about naysayers, it's their loss to not open their minds to the differences in the world.
Having done that section with a mountain bike: it's definitely doable, both on or off the trail.
Regarding e-bikes, they are great and allows us injured oldies to get to places that are otherwise denied. But they have a few limitations (range and weight), that require a bit more thoughtful planning of the stages, a willingness to stop for lunch for an hour or more and ask if you can charge the batteries (offer to pay towards the electricity)
Get on a bicycle regularly before you leave to get your sit bones used to being in the saddle. Another skill to (re)learn is puncture repair and chain maintenance. While out there check or have the brake pads checked occasionally. (I blew mine in a downhill, it was scary)
There's a few different types out there, and I'll assume you'll be renting yours.
What to look for (my opinion only):
1/ a high torque motor (70Nm+) to deal with the climbs
2/ a large capacity battery : 400Wh is a minimum, if possible enquire about renting a 2nd battery, (I'll be travelling with 2 batteries totalling 1125Wh)
3/ a good solid luggage rack
4/ 10+ gears to deal with the climbs
motor: I prefer mid drives over hub drives, but that is purely because of the weight distribution. this is a personal preference
Enquire if a basic puncture repair kit + tooling, chain lubricant and a solid U-lock is provided. often cable locks are given, they take 15 seconds to cut through.
What to bring re cycling gear: (just my opininion)
1/ your own comfortable saddle you're used to.
2/ your own good quality weatherproof panniers bags. (some rentals provide them, but then what do you do with your suitcase?)
3/ a good quality rechargeable front and rear light: they are lifesavers!!!
4/ A good quality comfortable touring/city cycling helmet, with raincover
5/ cycling (sun)glasses
6/ Hi-Viz cycling waistcoat (there's a few out there for warm weather
7/ Hi-Viz cycling rain jacket
8/ powerbank for phone
9/ frame bag for phone
10/ bungie cords for tying everthing to your rack on top of your panniers (referred to as "pulpos" in Spain)
11/ Map of the area, or camino guide with information for cyclists: they'll list the albergues/hotels that are bicycle friendly
12/ littler padlocks to secure your paniers to the bicycle (It's nasty but the idea is to make your neighour's gear look easier to nick than yours)
Yes I did mean credentials. And yes we plan to stay mostly on the roads when possibleThere are some sections of the Camino walked by pedestrians that are unsuitable for 'ordinary' bikes. They may be suitable for 'mountain' bikes, ridden with skill. They can be narrow and, during or after wet weather, bikes can leave ruts, which make it hard for walkers when the ruts have dried. An e-bike will be heavier than an ordinary or mountain bike and will leave deeper ruts. These sections may be quite short but I don't think that a profile of the route will show where they are. I would suggest that you use the roads as much as possible, though there is danger there from passing vehicles, lorries especially.
You mentioned throwing away your Compostelas. You meant your credencials. (sorry)
But is it going to be an e-bike that yo can also pedal if you so chose?
Rebekah we are probably going to take a long lunch to recharge, both ourselves and our batteriesBicyclists are becoming rare birds on the Camino! They used to be 20 percent of the users, now they're down to 4 percent!
Please remember that electricity is eye-wateringly expensive in Spain. ASK before you plug in your battery charger, and be sure to leave a little extra when your bill comes, to cover the extra cost of running your bike... especially when using facilities at non-profit places.
Fully agree - it is your Camino and you are entitled to do it as you wish...It's your Camino to travel in whatever way you wish - as pilgrims have done for centuries. Enjoy it and take back lots of memories.
Then plan your next. Buen camino
Consider what you need, if sore knees prevent riding with sufficient effort to sufficiently activate the power assist feature on steeper sections or if you anticipate needing to travel a few miles without pedaling at all, you might want to avoid the pedal assist types (unless they have an throttle or settable power mode, some might).
Please respond to your call and travel as you can. We are your friends and supporters. Go safe and go in joy. Buen camino.I was too hasty and want to finish what I started. I feel compelled to.
Helen you have been very helpful. I am interested in buying/downloading that Dutch guide. Is it in English? Even though I once had a Dutch boyfriend my language skills aren’t that good LOLI hope you have a fantastic time! Definitely get the spiral bound Dutch cycling guide which shows the route in detail. The Cicerone guide isn't very helpful. Not sure about the German one. There are a couple of places where the road route differs significantly from the footpath and the cycling guides are super helpful, especially when you head into cities. The guide also lists bike friendly places to stay. There are some fantastic stretches of lovely smooth tarmac roads with gentle gradients and only local traffic. The walking route can be really hard work in comparison. You'll quickly get a sense for the busy periods and you can always take a break and let the traffic die down.
How will you be received? For all the loveliness of the people on this forum you'll probably meet a few on the camino who are pretty judgemental. It's not just cyclists who get this. Some walkers judge people walking in stages, or those who are 'only' walking from Sarria or have their luggage transported or stay in hotels. Some comment other people's rucksack size and tell them how they are doing it wrong. Some people seem to think that those who don't follow the signposted path exactly are cheating! Cyclists can get more of this and e-bikers even more - you'll definitely hear about all the awful things cyclists do and near misses from walkers. Don't let it get you down, you can't please everyone all of the time (my personal opinion is that cycling the camino is far more enjoyable/less stressful/easier on the road unless you're cycling late afternoon after most walkers have stopped). However, I don't think I met anyone who was Spanish who was bothered about cyclists and the owners of the places I stayed/ate at were super welcoming and really helpful with my bike. Also met some lovely Spanish cyclists including a couple of young lads I met at the edge of Burgos who said to follow them to find the river route into the city and cycled all the way with me.
Thanks for the thoughtful response Ken. My husband and I both ride pedal assist Ebikes at home and what we are renting appears very similar to ours. I don’t think I can ride without the power being on, since the few times I’ve inadvertently turned off my bike, it’s very difficult. We hope to fully charge each night in our private room and then offer to pay a restaurant|bar mid day if we have a long ride ahead.What you're proposing is very doable. I regularly ride with a group of seniors, some who have started using eBikes for the reasons you've mentioned - they adapt to them quickly and absolutely love them. We also have encountered people with eBikes on multi-day tours in the Pyrenees.
Do you have experience with eBikes and do you know details of those that will be available to you?
There are several types, some have a throttle with which you select the desired power level independent of your pedaling effort. Others are the "pedal assist" type, that often (not always) lack throttles and apply power in proportion to the rider's pedaling effort - think of them as amplifying the power you provide, and their controllers allow selection of several assistance levels. No power when not pedaling, and even when set to the maximum assist level one must pedal at some effort level to access maximum motor power. Some bikes allow user customization of the control curves through an app, but best not to count on this.
Consider what you need, if sore knees prevent riding with sufficient effort to sufficiently activate the power assist feature on steeper sections or if you anticipate needing to travel a few miles without pedaling at all, you might want to avoid the pedal assist types (unless they have an throttle or settable power mode, some might).
Consider learning what you can about the bikes available to you, then tell a local shop of your plans and ask if you can evaluate a few bikes so you can learn what you are getting into. Who knows, if you like the experience they might make a sale.
Other factors to consider: 1) required battery capacity (function of terrain, distance between charges, and how much assist one needs) - some can accommodate a range extending battery. 2) Weight, gear range - do you have the strength to pedal the rest of the way if the battery gives out? 3) Tire width and tread pattern (mainly a consideration when riding soft, unpaved tracks.) 4) An uncomfortable seat is a ..... , best to bring your own.
We really only plan on using the pedal assist. That’s what we are accustomed to and I believe are acceptable to receive a Compostela, however if we don’t, I’m ok with that too. GraciasNice post, Ken. Thank you
Would you agree that if a goal is to obtain a Compostela (and it might not be a goal), that part of the consideration is to only focus on bikes that are power assist only, as throttle assist equipped bikes are apparently against the rules set by the Pilgrim Office?
Of course, the Compostela rules only apply to the last and continuous 200 km going into Santiago de Compostela. So you could use a throttle-controlled Ebike to start from SJPdP or Burgos until reaching that last 200km mark (which I think would be around Ponferrada). Then arrange with the rental company to switch you over to a power-assist only model for that last 200km ride into SdC.
With your experience you should be fine.Thanks for the thoughtful response Ken. My husband and I both ride pedal assist Ebikes at home and what we are renting appears very similar to ours. I don’t think I can ride without the power being on, since the few times I’ve inadvertently turned off my bike, it’s very difficult. We hope to fully charge each night in our private room and then offer to pay a restaurant|bar mid day if we have a long ride ahead.
There are several types, some have a throttle with which you select the desired power level independent of your pedaling effort.
So you could use a throttle-controlled Ebike to start from SJPdP or Burgos until reaching that last 200km mark (which I think would be around Ponferrada). Then arrange with the rental company to switch you over to a power-assist only model for that last 200km ride into SdC.
This is hard to answer, as I don't know how these things are measured and how much power it takes to charge a bike battery. But I think 5 euro ought to cover it.Rebekah we are probably going to take a long lunch to recharge, both ourselves and our batteriesfor an hour of using an outlet how much should I offer?
There may be a slight difference of semantics here. Throttle driven electric bikes tend to be the equivalent of electric motorcycles whereas e-bikes tend to be the equivalent of electric cycles and limited to 250w motors with max assistance up to speed of 25km/h. After 25km/h you have to pedal like mad as the bikes are 20-25kg in weight
Believe what we are talking about here are electric cycles but the OP can confirm.
Apparently not, according to this (and other articles)Am I wrong? I thought ebikes charged themselves as you ride like a hybrid car battery?
It is your camino. You do it your way in your time for yourself and no one else. Congrats on your determination to take it up again and on having the tenacity to approach it in a new way. Buena suerte y buen camino.I know some will think we are taking the easy route. When we walked from SJPP I 2012 I thought that was the only Way!
You might want to check to see how e-bikes figure into getting a Compostela at the end since you won't be using full body strength to get to Santiago.. We plan to ride both the Camino and the road. If anyone has helpful suggestions/recommendations, please share. We plan to only stay in private albergue/hotels.
I know some will think we are taking the easy route. When we walked from SJPP I 2012 I thought that was the only Way!
See post #40 above.You might want to check to see how e-bikes figure into getting a Compostela at the end since you won't be using full body strength to get to Santiago.
I think the same too!Honestly, to me walking seems easier than biking on many parts of the Camino!
I am glad of your answer, I had no idea what an ebike was!You might try search terms like "electric bike", "e-bike", "e bike", "electric scooter" etc to increase the number of results. If any forum member's views on this should be respected, I think it is @t2andreo's. Put his forum name on the 'Posted by' box in the search dialog.
No. Not your fault. They need to announce that they are coming!I have never felt those on bikes were less of a pilgrim than those walking. It is quite a challenge in many areas, so good luck!
I will say that I have been scared out of my wits by a fast mover passing by and saying Buen Camino while I was walking in a bit of a daydream! Not their fault, but mine.
Thanks Fiona2022 for the kind words. Enjoy your Camino, 3 times the charm they sayI’m walking at an average speed of 2mph, decreasing to 1.5mph on days that are downhill. I’m walking only 10 - 15km a day, which takes me 6 - 7 hours. My pack is being transported by Correos. I thought I’d accepted my physical limitations and the compromises I’ve made, but I’ve felt very defensive when telling other pilgrims. But everyone has been so kind and encouraging. I’ve encountered no judgment at all. And it is amazing to finally be going all the way to SdC on my third attempt.
Like you I have a wrecked knee so I know that your Camino won’t be easy, even with an ebike. I have so much admiration for you. Buen Camino!
I'm so sorry that you got rid of your uncompleted credencial. But maybe that's why it has been gnawing in the back of your mind all these years.
You do your Camino your way. I've seen people walk, cycle, on horseback, with chickens, on skateboards, with donkeys, and blind, doing the CF.
Not the same person at the same time, mind you.
This used to be a big question here - is there only one way to REALLY "do" the Camino? The answer is - NO. It's what is in your heart and soul that makes it a journey of discovery, of revelation, of adventure. Your sacrifices and determination will make it your own. And the pilgrims who count - the ones who make it from point A to point Z - will admire you and respect your effort. It goes without saying that God is always on your side, too, and will be so PROUD of you!!
Kathy F thank you for understanding what is in my heartI'm so sorry that you got rid of your uncompleted credencial. But maybe that's why it has been gnawing in the back of your mind all these years.
You do your Camino your way. I've seen people walk, cycle, on horseback, with chickens, on skateboards, with donkeys, and blind, doing the CF.
Not the same person at the same time, mind you.
This used to be a big question here - is there only one way to REALLY "do" the Camino? The answer is - NO. It's what is in your heart and soul that makes it a journey of discovery, of revelation, of adventure. Your sacrifices and determination will make it your own. And the pilgrims who count - the ones who make it from point A to point Z - will admire you and respect your effort. It goes without saying that God is always on your side, too, and will be so PROUD of you!!
This is where give and take, common sense and courtesy kick in. And alternative routes when needed. @senora1 seems to be expecting and open to all of that.SJPDP to Santiago there are sections where walkers and riders can coexist but there are also sections where it would be difficult.
Sorry, but place me on the scorne column. Reverse the situation. Spain has some excellent biking routes. Walkers on the raiders route would not be appreciated . SJPDP to Santiago there are sections where walkers and riders can coexist but there are also sections where it would be difficult.
I don't think that's true. At least not according to the information in the post I quoted from @t2andreo in post #40 above.The only issue would be that to claim a Compostela after having completed one's Camino with such motor assistance involves providing documentation of a disability.
My biggest problem with any bike is that when there are crowds and the paths are narrow, the bikers either need to use the roads or get off the bikes and walk till the roads widen. In Salceda, the riders thankfully took to the road!
But this is not frequently what happens. Instead some riders try to plow through the walkers. If one can not ride on a road for a short period of time, should one be cycling on The CF? So, my issue has more to do with the cyclist, not necessarily the bike!
If you reread my post you will see we intend to do both. Obviously where it’s not safe for walkers we will stick to the roadSorry, but place me on the scorne column. Reverse the situation. Spain has some excellent biking routes. Walkers on the raiders route would not be appreciated . SJPDP to Santiago there are sections where walkers and riders can coexist but there are also sections where it would be difficult.
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