Announcement: Creation of the Acogida Tradicional Jacobea

[Dave]

This has been in the works for a bit, but I received the formal announcement this morning:

Dear Sir/Madam:

We are writing to inform you of the recent creation of the ATJ (Spanish acronym standing for Acogida Tradicional Jacobea), our NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRADITIONAL JACOBEAN WELCOME SPACES ON THE CAMINOS DE SANTIAGO.

Sadly, we are now witnessing the Camino becoming a tourist route, removed from its original spiritual purpose. Given the tendency for commercialisation, the lack of understanding in some administrations, and tourists under the guise of pilgrims using our spaces that may should go to other establishments, we have joined forces to defend the traditional jacobean hospitality and promote a culture of responsible voluntary contribution (a term that appeals directly to the ethics of the pilgrim and replaces the misunderstood “donation”), allowing these spaces to be kept open in a sustainable way.

Traditional hospitality is the ultimate expression of Jacobean culture, the support for pilgrimages from the 9th century to the present day. Given its extraordinary preservation and the values it promotes, it has been recognised by the Spain’s Historical Heritage Council as a Representative Example of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Spain (pending official publication), an essential preliminary step for its recognition by UNESCO as Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity.

Our association brings together spaces that provide non-profit care to pilgrims, some of which you probably know under other names (donation-based hostel, open house, albergue, etc.). The initiative started on the Camino del Norte and the Camino Primitivo, but it is open to all other Caminos.

We call ourselves “spaces” because our facilities are diverse, but we are united by some common characteristics: our commitment to pilgrimage, our desire to support pilgrims for spiritual reasons and human solidarity, our warm welcome and, above all, features that differentiate us entirely from other initiatives linked to the Camino: welcoming pilgrims in exchange for the aforementioned responsible voluntary contribution used to cover expenses and keep the spaces open, our exclusive orientation toward pilgrims (not tourists) and our openness without discrimination to those making the pilgrimage to Santiago who lack economic resources.

Considering the important work that you carry out in the communication of information about the Camino de Santiago, we have attached to this email a text that explains the concepts of Traditional Jacobean Hospitality and responsible voluntary contribution. The inclusion of this text in your printed and/or virtual guide would greatly help to maintain the genuine Jacobean culture and, in particular, this type of welcome, so historically linked to the Camino.

We take this opportunity to send you the latest updated list of existing ATJ Spaces on the Camino del Norte and the Primitivo. We have also attached the logo of our association. It is our intention to place this logo at the entrance of the associated spaces so that they can be easily identified by pilgrims.

As always, we are at your disposal for any additional information you may require. We are currently using this email address, but in the near future we will send you a new one that will be created for the exclusive use of the ATJ association.

We appreciate your attention and look forward to hearing from you.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRADITIONAL JACOBEAN HOSPITALITY SPACES ON THE CAMINOS DE SANTIAGO (ATJ).

------------------

And here is the accompanying list of ATJ places on the Norte and Primitivo:​

CAMINO DEL NORTE

Tu Camino
Ontón
María José
+34 645985269

Cabaña del Abuelo Peuto
Güemes
Ernesto
+34 942 621122

Izarra
Caborredondo
Giulia
+34 689622344

Aves de Paso
Pendueles
Anna
+34 676620094

Duesos
Caravia
Marisol y José Luís
+34 611688162

La Llamarga
Tornón
Se abrirá en abril y hasta entonces no hay teléfono

La Casa de Montse
Carda
Montse
+34 651068840

La Ferrería (Closed and relocating)
Amandi
Sergio
+34 646516846

San Martín
San Martín de Laspra
María
+34 611570284

La Reguera
Soto de Luiña
Elena y Jacin
+34 630777409

Refugio La Lionesa
La Candanosa de Muñas
Andreas
+34 655596486

La Casa del Peregrino
Otur
Mercedes
+34 627887507

Granja de Calor
Villamartín Pequeño
Freddy y Nicole
+34 622413708

Triskel
Lourenzá
Ana
+34 696570192

O Bisonte de Maariz
Maariz, Mondoñedo
Karmela
+34 626766235


CAMINO PRIMITIVO

El Güertu
Colloto
Meri
+34 698949746

Villa de Grado
Grado
Voluntarios
+34 985 752766

Casita Mandala
San Marcelo
Patrick
+34 613014607

Roca Madre
La Rodriga
Irene y Diego
+34 638176862

Fontenonaya
Porciles
Nicolás
+34 653247007

Albergue de Bodenaya
Bodenaya
Allison y Alberto
+34 645888984

El Cruce
La Espina
Carmen
+34 639365210

Casa Pascual nº8
El Espín
Silvia
+34 606242097

Polagrino
Pola de Allande
Stef
+31 616100701

 

[Dave]

And here is the accompanying text on traditional Jacobean hospitality:

ATJ: TRADITIONAL JACOBEAN HOSPITALITY

ATJ stands for Spanish Acogida Tradicional Jacobea (Traditional Jacobean
Hospitality). The ATJ is a unique expression of Jacobean Culture. It consists of the
non-profit welcoming of pilgrims into private spaces like open houses, etc.... by hosts
who have a commitment and spiritual link with the Camino de Santiago, usually as a result
of their own experiences as pilgrims. Some of these spaces are in small villages and/or
environments of ecological interest.

ATJ is characterised by human warmth. Focusing exclusively on pilgrims and
relying on their voluntary and responsible contributions makes it possible for these
spaces to remain open and offer basic services: a place to spend the night (usually in
shared rooms), a shower and, often, a communal dinner and breakfast. The responsible
voluntary contribution based on the conscience, ethics and solidarity of pilgrims is
essential for the survival of this type of warm welcome, so threatened by the
commercialisation of the Camino de Santiago.

Volunteering is allowed in some of the ATJ spaces. Many are rural homes where all kinds
of help are needed. If you feel the transformative energy of the Camino de Santiago,
they will be a good fit for you on your journey, as a pilgrim or as a volunteer.

 

[David]

Well that is interesting as I have often wondered how Spanish people involved in the Caminos view this extraordinary growth of hiking tourism in recent years - but, I think because of the new rule we cannot discuss this as, if I am correct, we cannot discuss or judge what is and what isn't a pilgrim.

 

[grayland]

I fully support the inititive of the group.
I am certain that the announcement will be decried and attacked here as it does not fit the current opinion of many members.

Much has been lost due to the commercial control of activity of all types on the camino.
Any expression of loss by those who feel very strongly about this change are immediately attacked and demeaned as "judgemental".

Judgemental seems to have a new meaning that is very close to "hateful because it is against my personal belief or opinion".

 

[trecile]

I fully support the inititive of the group.
I am certain that the announcement will be decried and attacked here as it does not fit the current opinion of many members

I see nothing wrong with discussing this initiative that continues the traditional hospitality of the Camino, and is a reminder of its origins. Fortunately, the Camino has something to offer everyone who steps foot on it, and many will discover something different than they expected.

 

[C clearly]

Thanks for posting this interesting announcement, @Dave. I, too, support this initiative.

I see it as unfortunate that they started the announcement with the following statement that set up an adversarial discussion.

Sadly, we are now witnessing the Camino becoming a tourist route, removed from its original spiritual purpose. Given the tendency for commercialisation, the lack of understanding in some administrations, and tourists under the guise of pilgrims using our spaces that may should go to other establishments,

I understand the truth in the statement above, and perhaps it will serve their strategy. However, on this thread, I hope we can focus the discussion on celebrating the objectives and opportunities behind the concept and how they can move forward constructively.

 

[Dave]

My understanding, having spoken with some of the hosts over the years, is that the animus in that opening salvo is inspired to a fair degree by some private accommodations advocating for policy changes in cities/regions along the way that would legislate donation-based albergues out of existence.

But I agree @C clearly that it's opening the door to an unproductive discussion about "true pilgrims" that we can hopefully avoid.

 

[David Tallan]

Well that is interesting as I have often wondered how Spanish people involved in the Caminos view this extraordinary growth of hiking tourism in recent years - but, I think because of the new rule we cannot discuss this as, if I am correct, we cannot discuss or judge what is and what isn't a pilgrim.

I think it is perfectly possible to discuss changes in the Camino in recent years, and how the Spanish people view them, without challenging the sincerity, intentions, or authenticity of another person’s Camino. I believe there have been a number of such discussions since the new rule came in. Maybe you haven't noticed them.

 

[dougfitz]

But I agree @C clearly that it's opening the door to an unproductive discussion about "true pilgrims" that we can hopefully avoid.

It seems to me that the only people who need to concern themselves with this distinction are the hospitaleros who are part of this arrangement. There may be things to do to ensure that this arrangement is more widely publicised than on this forum, but it would appear that process is underway. Otherwise, I think we are merely interested bystanders to a discussion that, at its worst, will take place at the front door when an individual hospitalero makes an assessment that the walker/rider in front of them is a tourist, and won't be given a bed for the night.

 

[C clearly]

It seems to me that the only people who need to concern themselves with this distinction are the hospitaleros who are part of this arrangement.

I think we are merely interested bystanders to a discussion

I agree with your points about the larger "discussion" but I was referring to the discussion on this forum

 

[dbier]

::::chuckle:::: My only reaction to this designation is that the ATJ blessing on El Cruce (not new) and the encouragement for volunteers for some unspecified numbers of these albergues ( new) *still* doesn't mean that a night's stay at El Cruce qualifies as the required night's stay for formal hospitalero training, since that night's stay cannot be in a private accommodation.

That being said, Carmen at El Cruce is a pearl beyond price, with a lovely small albergue, easy access to both hand and mechanical washing facilities and a spinner, plus covered lines for drying clothes, an equipped kitchen, and a small grocery store just below, that she opens when she's through checking people in. If you're walking the Primitivo, I do recommend staying there.

 

[Luka]

My understanding, having spoken with some of the hosts over the years, is that the animus in that opening salvo is inspired to a fair degree by some private accommodations advocating for policy changes in cities/regions along the way that would legislate donation-based albergues out of existence.

But I agree @C clearly that it's opening the door to an unproductive discussion about "true pilgrims" that we can hopefully avoid.

I know of at least one donativo albergue owner who has been given a hard time by a private albergue in the same village.

But could it also be that they experience more interest from tourists/holiday makers not walking the Camino in staying in their albergues?

 

[Lindsay53]

I know of at least one donativo albergue owner who has been given a hard time by a private albergue in the same village.

But could it also be that they experience more interest from tourists/holiday makers not walking the Camino in staying in their albergues?

I heard the Hospitalera in the municipal albergue in Zamora patiently explaining to some confused backpackers that it was not a youth hostel and they could not stay. This happened quite often I understand.

 

[dick bird]

I fully support the inititive of the group.
I am certain that the announcement will be decried and attacked here as it does not fit the current opinion of many members.

Much has been lost due to the commercial control of much of the activity of all types on the camino.
Any expression of loss by those who feel very strongly about this change are immediately attacked and demeaned as "judgemental".

Judgemental seems to have a new meaning that is very close to "hateful because it is against my personal belief or opinion".

Anyone who thinks commercial exploitation of the Camino is a new thing clearly hasn’t read their Codex Calextinus properly. It is not a new thing and it is how thousands of people earn an honest living (though not always honest back in the day, if Aymeric Picard is to be believed).

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

I certainly support this initiative. As I hope to walk the Norte in 2025 or 26 I'm very pleased to see the list from them.

Based on the outstanding reception I received from Alison and Alberto at Bodenaya , Isabel at Casa Pascal, and @dbier's comments about Carmen I shall actively seek the Jacobian network.

 

[davejsy]

I mean I'm very naive toward any such discussions as those above, but I've heard and read a lot of opinions and witnessed certain things on my CF this autumn. But anything that seeks to keep alive the spirit of Donativo's or similar is surely good - my best night on the CF was spent at the St Anton monastery Donativo, and it was simply a night that no amount of money would have been enough for. I heard about the problems facing these kinds of places, and my experience taught me the importance and spirit of these places.

I don't know what the solution is to stop people abusing such selfless hospitality though, for that I guess you can only really rely on the human spirit, honesty, and decency at the end of the day - and that is a bit like Russian roulette in today's day and age.

 

[Bradypus]

Anyone who thinks commercial exploitation of the Camino is a new thing clearly hasn’t read their Codex Calextinus properly. It is not a new thing and it is how thousands of people earn an honest living

There was a brief period at the start of the Camino revival in the 1980s when numbers walking were too small for anyone to make a living from the Camino. What provision there was for pilgrims was mostly donativo and voluntary and often offered free of charge as a gift and act of service. Possible when a village might only see a handful of pilgrims per day even in peak season - unsustainable in a year when the pilgrim office may record close to half a million arrivals. I don't think that many of us object to local people making a living by offering essential services like food and accommodation to those who walk the Caminos. For myself my distaste for the commercialisation of the Caminos is more to do with international travel companies who sell the Caminos as just one more commodity that can be picked off the shelf readymade with the minimum of thought or effort. It saddens me when so often the very first question someone asks when considering a Camino is "Which travel company should I book with?" Which suggests that a Camino journey is something to be bought rather than made.

 

[IngridF]

I heard the Hospitalera in the municipal albergue in Zamora patiently explaining to some confused backpackers that it was not a youth hostel and they could not stay. This happened quite often I understand.

Never happened when I was hospitalera in Zamora, but that was in 2015

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

Well that is interesting as I have often wondered how Spanish people involved in the Caminos view this extraordinary growth of hiking tourism in recent years - but, I think because of the new rule we cannot discuss this as, if I am correct, we cannot discuss or judge what is and what isn't a pilgrim.

I was thinking the same. Will this start a new view on who are the true pilgrams and who are not? New arguments? We each walk our own way. Futhering my understanding I believe this is more for those that have commercialized the places of stay into more of a luxury and who are taking advantage of those on their travels, rather than for those on a true experience with very minimal means. I have been a volunteer through most of my life and look forward to doing more of that on my camino if time permits.

 

[trecile]

It saddens me when so often the very first question someone asks when considering a Camino is "Which travel company should I book with?"

For those who don't know much about the Camino and are coming from a great distance this isn't an unreasonable question. When I first heard about the Camino and started googling around the first sites that came up were the Camino tour company sites. Fortunately, I'm a cheapskate and didn't want to pay those high prices, so I soon found this wonderful forum with all of its accumulated wisdom and learned that there was no need to pre-arrange it through a company.

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

Same. I am only booking my plane tickets and train tickets with travel insurance through a travel agent. The rest I will be doing on my own. There is a wonderful group I was introduced to on Facebook called "CAMIGAS" for ladies who travel alone. And man do they do their research. Also if you are in the USA, American Pilgrams on Camino is great.

 

[Tincatinker]

"What God wrought what rot" (anyone with access to the internet will be able to chase down that particular outbreak of rage against the machine) (Oh that'll be all of you won't it)

Quite what the hell the publication by an association of Casas Acogida of a list of their members has to do with "True" pilgrims is beyond my comprehension. Though I can, easily, comprehend the sort of culo that would like to turn it into that sort of ruck.

I begin to despair. Is this a forum for holiday makers and the privileged effluent. The sort of place where you check out your Berking.con booking for a second opinion? Does anybody ever anymore make a pilgrimage to the bones of one who may, perhaps, despite all likelihood, have touched the Divine?

Achh!

Edited: I'd originally typed affluent but on reflection decided that effluent more accurately expressed my rage

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

"What God wrought what rot" (anyone with access to the internet will be able to chase down that particular outbreak of rage against the machine) (Oh that'll be all of you won't it)

Quite what the hell the publication by an association of Casas Acogida of a list of their members has to do with "True" pilgrims is beyond my comprehension. Though I can, easily, comprehend the sort of culo that would like to turn it into that sort of ruck.

I begin to despair. Is this a forum for holiday makers and the privileged affluent. The sort of place where you check out your Berking.con booking for a second opinion? Does anybody ever anymore make a pilgrimage to the bones of one who may, perhaps, despite all likelihood, have touched the Divine?

Achh!

Thank you. So we'll said. I was so inspired by many who had taken this pilgrimage for that very reason. All walks of life. Rich or poor and in-between. As a nurse this has always spoken to me as journey of faith. Since surviving a stroke while at work this is more to me now. My reverence and spiritual transcendence is more to me now.

 

[Kathar1na]

I was thinking the same. Will this start a new view on who are the true pilgrams and who are not? New arguments? We each walk our own way. Futhering my understanding I believe this is more for those that have commercialized the places of stay into more of a luxury and who are taking advantage of those on their travels, rather than for those on a true experience with very minimal means.

That is not what I read from the announcement about the recent creation of the ATJ (Acogida Tradicional Jacobea) or "Association for Traditional Jacobean Welcome Spaces on the Caminos de Santiago".

What I read is that 15 albergues on the Camino del Norte and 9 albergues on the Camino Primitivo have formed an association to raise the awareness of the "donativo" albergues and their philosophy: that they strive to maintain a tradition and that their principle of functioning is based on "responsible voluntary contribution" from those staying with them for a night to cover expenses and keep these albergues open.

They say that their association is open to donativo albergues on other Caminos. I was a little surprised that the donativo albergues on the popular Camino Francés are not included but this may change.

I have no first hand experience but have read that donativo albergues along the Cantabrian coast in particular have struggled during the summer months in particular with people who stayed or tried to stay with them but were clearly on a "backpacker" trip or on a summer holiday on the coast - these are not their "target group" and this may be one reason that led to forming the association. Another possible reason is mentioned by the OP who writes that he has spoken with the hosts of such albergues over the years: it is impending or potential future change of legislation concerning tax status and regulatory requirements for such albergues in the region of Asturias (I think) that might "legislate donation-based albergues out of existence". You may already know that the legislation for albergues is largely the remit of the regional governments in Spain and not the national government.

It it certainly a good thing when the donativo albergues try to raise their profile and general knowledge about them. A common approach, a common logo as mentioned in the announcement and the project of gaining recognition as a Unesco Immaterial World heritage will no doubt help. They are a minority among pilgrim accommodation on the popular Caminos and that is not going to change. I wish them good luck.

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

That is not what I read from the announcement about the recent creation of the ATJ (Acogida Tradicional Jacobea) or "Association for Traditional Jacobean Welcome Spaces on the Caminos de Santiago".

What I read is that 15 albergues on the Camino del Norte and 9 albergues on the Camino Primitivo have formed an association to raise the awareness of the "donativo" albergues and their philosophy: that they strive to maintain a tradition and that their principle of functioning is based on "responsible voluntary contribution" from those staying with them for a night to cover expenses and keep these albergues open.

They say that their association is open to donativo albergues on other Caminos. I was a little surprised that the donativo albergues on the popular Camino Francés are not included but this may change.

I have no first hand experience but have read that donativo albergues along the Cantabrian coast in particular have struggled during the summer months in particular with people who stayed or tried to stay with them but were clearly on a "backpacker" trip or on a summer holiday on the coast - these are not their "target group" and this may be one reason that led to forming the association. Another possible reason is mentioned by the OP who writes that he has spoken with the hosts of such albergues over the years: it is impending or potential future change of legislation concerning tax status and regulatory requirements for such albergues in the region of Asturias (I think) that might "legislate donation-based albergues out of existence". You may already know that the legislation for albergues is largely the remit of the regional governments in Spain and not the national government.

It it certainly a good thing when the donativo albergues try to raise their profile and general knowledge about them. A common approach, a common logo as mentioned in the announcement and the project of gaining recognition as a Unesco Immaterial World heritage will no doubt help. They are a minority among pilgrim accommodation on the popular Caminos and that is not going to change. I wish them good luck.

So grateful for this clarification. My brain is still healing so I do not always catch everything. Thank you so much for this perspective. I will look at this more so as to understand this.

 

[Kathar1na]

Just out of curiosity: Are there any donation-based albergues in Galicia?

The government of Galicia, the great promoter of the Camino de Santiago, maintains currently a net of some 90+ public albergues - financed by the regional government and by an obligatory daily rate of €10 per bed and night. I am not sure when they started building this net - in 1993? Probably earlier. Until 2008 staying in these albergues in Galicia was indeed free and not donation based.

In 2008 they introduced a fee. It was €3 at the time. I retrieved a news article to refresh my memory and was amused to read this: "La necesidad de sufragar los costes de mantenimiento de estas posadas así como la intención de luchar contra su masificación llevaron a la Consellería de Industria a anunciar por primera vez a finales de 2005 su intención de acabar con la gratuidad de la red de albergues públicos del Camino" - the introduction of a fee is justified by the necessity of covering the cost of maintenance and of fighting against "massification". It obviously didn't work.

In any case, it is certainly a good idea to provide better information about "albergues" and their differences - public albergues, private albergues and donation-based albergues plus parochial albergues and similar albergues who can belong to one of these three categories.

 

[Bradypus]

I am not sure when they started building it - in 1993?

The first purpose-built albergues were built by the Xunta in the run-up to the 1993 Holy Year. Before that there was a fairly random assortment of small refugios run by town councils, churches and confraternities. Not centrally organised. Varied enormously in size and style.

PS: Just found a list of the Xunta albergues built for the 1993 Holy Year


Source is a Xunta document: https://www.xunta.gal/dog/Publicados/1993/19930406/Anuncio2838E_gl.pdf

 

[Tincatinker]

I think the Xunta’s and Turismo Galicia’s licensing laws effectively prevent the operation of any where that most of us would recognize as a Donativo / Casa Acogida. I cannot think of anywhere in Galicia that would fit that model. I look forward to being contradicted

 

[Dave]

Just out of curiosity: Are there any donation-based albergues in Galicia?

I see four on the Norte: Granja de Calor in Villamartín Pequeño, Albergue Triskel in Lourenzá, O Bisonte de Maariz, and Albergue de Peregrinos San Martín in Miraz. That's three ATJ albergues, plus the Confraternity's.

I don't have any listed on the Primitivo or Inglés.

I'm less familiar with the Portugués, but I believe Herbón's is donativo.

 

[HumanistHiker]

As a Camino newbie, likely to invite the wrath of the hardcore (on the basis that I stayed in private rooms in an assortment of pre-booked hotels, casa rurales and the odd private albergue, and not in dormitories in municipal/donativo/voluntary albergues on my Camino Portugues) I have no problem with the operators of donativo/voluntary contribution albergues setting up an association to promote their type of accommodation.

If the use of the term "voluntary contribution" helps reduce some of the confusion about what those who choose to stay in such places are expected to pay, then great.

I thought that to stay in donativos/municipal albergues, one was expected to produce one's credencial to demonstrate that one is a pilgrim.

Do they really have a problem with travellers who don't have credencials and aren't heading to Santiago trying to stay in donativos as cheap or even (misunderstanding the donativo principle) free hostel accommodation? If that's the "mischief" their association is trying to address, fair enough.

However, my concern, as a non-religious person who walked to Santiago, visited the cathedral including the tomb of St James, but who has been able to afford to stay in private accommodation, is that the tone of the message makes me think I would be less likely to be welcomed, were I to do another Camino and contemplate staying in such an albergue (e.g. if that was the only accommodation at a particular location, given my happy daily walking distance). The tone almost makes one expect a means-testing cross examination on arrival - you look too rich, naff off to a Parador!

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

I won't be staying in many dorms either. Mostly private rooms. Preferably. And my husband snores like a lion.

 

[Tincatinker]

As a Camino newbie, likely to invite the wrath of the hardcore (on the basis that I stayed in private rooms in an assortment of pre-booked hotels, casa rurales and the odd private albergue, and not in dormitories in municipal/donativo/voluntary albergues on my Camino Portugues) I have no problem with the operators of donativo/voluntary contribution albergues setting up an association to promote their type of accommodation.

If the use of the term "voluntary contribution" helps reduce some of the confusion about what those who choose to stay in such places are expected to pay, then great.

I thought that to stay in donativos/municipal albergues, one was expected to produce one's credencial to demonstrate that one is a pilgrim.

Do they really have a problem with travellers who don't have credencials and aren't heading to Santiago trying to stay in donativos as cheap or even (misunderstanding the donativo principle) free hostel accommodation? If that's the "mischief" their association is trying to address, fair enough.

However, my concern, as a non-religious person who walked to Santiago, visited the cathedral including the tomb of St James, but who has been able to afford to stay in private accommodation, is that the tone of the message makes me think I would be less likely to be welcomed, were I to do another Camino and contemplate staying in such an albergue (e.g. if that was the only accommodation at a particular location, given my happy daily walking distance). The tone almost makes one expect a means-testing cross examination on arrival - you look too rich, naff off to a Parador!

Stick end wrong you have grasped pilgrim. If you can afford to stay in a Parador but choose to stay in a Donativo just donate what you would have spent in the Parador. Soul protected will be and volunteers chuffed muchly.

I do love it when people seem to imply there should be some standards for charity. Doesn’t anybody pay any attention to scripture, or even basic human decency, anymore. The value of the widow’s mite far exceeds the camel stuffed through the eye of the bee holder.

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

"Donate accordingly!" is what a pilgrim woman shared on he Vlog. When she said that I thought, "But of course I would if that was where I was staying or partaking in their offerings of food, water and the like." But I was brought up with that mind set. My father was very poor as was my mother during WW2. this was a gracious gift of appreciation i am thankful for

 

[Kathar1na]

I won't be staying in many dorms either. Mostly private rooms. Preferably. And my husband snores like a lion.

In this case, on the Camino Francés, you are unlikely to stay in donativo (donation based) albergues because I don't think that they have private rooms.

The public albergues are also unlikely to offer private rooms.

However, in numerous cases, the many privately run Camino albergues offer both dormitory beds and private rooms. If you pay attention to it on Gronze.com for example, you will often see that they are "not exclusively for pilgrims but geared towards pilgrims". They, too, have probably a 1000+ year old tradition because in those days long ago many albergues and inns along the pilgrimage routes in medieval Europe welcomed all kinds of travellers, whether a pilgrim or not a pilgrim. Of course, the many casa rurales, pensiones, hostales, and small hotels on today's Camino Frances also take both pilgrims and non-pilgrims.

Buen Camino in any case !

 

[TeMahAbuela2023]

In this case, on the Camino Francés, you are unlikely to stay in donativo (donation based) albergues because I don't think that they have private rooms.

The public albergues are also unlikely to offer private rooms.

However, in numerous cases, the many privately run Camino albergues offer both dormitory beds and private rooms. If you pay attention to it on Gronze.com for example, you will often see that they are "not exclusively for pilgrims but geared towards pilgrims". They, too, have probably a 1000+ year old tradition because in those days long ago many albergues and inns along the pilgrimage ways in medieval Europe welcomed all kinds of travellers, whether a pilgrim or not a pilgrim. Of course, the many casa rurales, pensiones, hostales, and small hotels on today's Camino Frances also take both pilgrims and non-pilgrims.

Buen Camino in any case !

Thank you so much. If I were going solo I would totally do the donativos and the rurales but my husband snores so much I don't want to make it worse for anyone else. In planning this first trip. My girlfriend and I are already talking about doing one of the northern routes in 2026. I am so enamored by everyone and their sharing of information and kindness. No I am not NAIEVE, just a nurse surviving a pandemic hoping to experience joy and friendships across miles

 

[C clearly]

likely to invite the wrath of the hardcore (on the basis that I stayed in private rooms in an assortment of pre-booked hotels, casa rurales and the odd private albergue, and not in dormitories in municipal/donativo/voluntary albergues

Can you point me to any thread on this forum where the wrath of the hardcore has been inflicted on anyone, on the basis that they did not stay in dormitories in municipal/donativo/voluntary albergues"? I suspect not.

This is an urban myth that continues to propagate just by being repeated, often by newcomers who are anxious about the unknown experience, and are afraid of being judged according to preconceived criteria that they may have read about on Facebook. I'm not sure what your definition of "hardcore" is, but most of the very experienced pilgrims members of this forum really don't judge anyone negatively for staying in private accommodation. They often use private accommodation themselves. However, they may judge people negatively for abusing the donativo concept, they may lament the overcrowding of some routes and the associated problems, and they are quick to explain to newcomers that it is not necessary to use a travel agency.

Do they really have a problem with travellers who don't have credencials and aren't heading to Santiago trying to stay in donativos as cheap or even (misunderstanding the donativo principle) free hostel accommodation? If that's the "mischief" their association is trying to address, fair enough.

Yes, as I understand it, they do have that problem.

the tone of the message makes me think I would be less likely to be welcomed, were I to do another Camino and contemplate staying in such an albergue (e.g. if that was the only accommodation at a particular location, given my happy daily walking distance). The tone almost makes one expect a means-testing cross examination on arrival - you look too rich, naff off to a Parador!

As has been pointed out, the concept of paying what you can afford is fundamental. Big donations are very welcome, as they keep the place running for people who cannot afford much. The thing you might consider, though, is not taking a bed in a donativo during very busy periods when they are likely to fill up and would need to turn away someone who cannot afford more expensive accommodation as you can.

 

[HumanistHiker]

@C clearly - perhaps wrath was too strong a word.

I am proud to say I have never been on Facebook, so my comments are not due to "preconceived criteria that they have read about on Facebook".

I have read on this forum dismissive comments about booking accommodation ahead, the use of luggage transport services, using travel agencies/tour operators. There is an impression given, by some, often in the context of bemoaning changes to camino culture since they first started walking 20/30/however many years ago, that if one is not carrying one's own luggage, setting off (preferably before dawn) each morning to walk as far as one's legs will take one and hoping to find a bed in an unbooked albergue, that one is not doing the camino properly.

There are, of course, plenty comments by others along the lines of "walk your own camino, your way" as indeed I did, and plenty of friendly and welcoming advice.

If indeed the donativos do have problems with those not walking/cycling to Santiago with the aim of visiting the cathedral, and who do not have credencials, taking advantage of their hospitality, I understand their desire to educate travellers.

The new association promoting non-profit Jacobean hospitality is obviously not subject to this forum's rule 3. But to a non-Christian hiker like me, comments like "Sadly, we are now witnessing the Camino becoming a tourist route, removed from its original spiritual purpose" and "tourists under the guise of pilgrims using our spaces that may should go to other establishments," make me think I'm not the sort of guest the new association would welcome, regardless of how much I might choose to contribute were I to stay in such an albergue.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I help to run one of the albergues in the new Association.
We don't discriminate against non-believers. We even let Vegans stay!
The group was formed to give a united voice to albergues standing up to a great flood of people looking for a free place to stay, as well as the 'hospitality industry' who who'd like to eliminate competition from non-profits. It's a nice idea to mak these albergues readily identifiable to the so-called "hardcore" pilgrim -- someone traveling with limited resources, under vows, seeking stripped-down simplicity -- can also signal to the Instagrammy "My Camino My Way" swimming-pool and massage crowd that this place won't meet their needs and demands.

 

[trecile]

There is an impression given, by some, often in the context of bemoaning changes to camino culture since they first started walking 20/30/however many years ago, that if one is not carrying one's own luggage, setting off (preferably before dawn) each morning to walk as far as one's legs will take one and hoping to find a bed in an unbooked albergue, that one is not doing the camino properly.

I only started walking Caminos 7 years ago, and have witnessed a change in that short time. I am so thankful that I wasn't influenced by Facebook groups YouTube vlogs and the like before my first Camino. I mostly focused my attention on gathering information on what to take and how to get there. I would advise first time pilgrims to do the same. I enjoyed walking without a brain full of preconceived ideas of what my Camino experience would be like.

We don't discriminate against non-believers. We even let Vegans stay!

 

[happymarkos]

This has been in the works for a bit, but I received the formal announcement this morning:

Dear Sir/Madam:

We are writing to inform you of the recent creation of the ATJ (Spanish acronym standing for Acogida Tradicional Jacobea), our NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRADITIONAL JACOBEAN WELCOME SPACES ON THE CAMINOS DE SANTIAGO.

Sadly, we are now witnessing the Camino becoming a tourist route, removed from its original spiritual purpose. Given the tendency for commercialisation, the lack of understanding in some administrations, and tourists under the guise of pilgrims using our spaces that may should go to other establishments, we have joined forces to defend the traditional jacobean hospitality and promote a culture of responsible voluntary contribution (a term that appeals directly to the ethics of the pilgrim and replaces the misunderstood “donation”), allowing these spaces to be kept open in a sustainable way.

Traditional hospitality is the ultimate expression of Jacobean culture, the support for pilgrimages from the 9th century to the present day. Given its extraordinary preservation and the values it promotes, it has been recognised by the Spain’s Historical Heritage Council as a Representative Example of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Spain (pending official publication), an essential preliminary step for its recognition by UNESCO as Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity.

Our association brings together spaces that provide non-profit care to pilgrims, some of which you probably know under other names (donation-based hostel, open house, albergue, etc.). The initiative started on the Camino del Norte and the Camino Primitivo, but it is open to all other Caminos.

We call ourselves “spaces” because our facilities are diverse, but we are united by some common characteristics: our commitment to pilgrimage, our desire to support pilgrims for spiritual reasons and human solidarity, our warm welcome and, above all, features that differentiate us entirely from other initiatives linked to the Camino: welcoming pilgrims in exchange for the aforementioned responsible voluntary contribution used to cover expenses and keep the spaces open, our exclusive orientation toward pilgrims (not tourists) and our openness without discrimination to those making the pilgrimage to Santiago who lack economic resources.

Considering the important work that you carry out in the communication of information about the Camino de Santiago, we have attached to this email a text that explains the concepts of Traditional Jacobean Hospitality and responsible voluntary contribution. The inclusion of this text in your printed and/or virtual guide would greatly help to maintain the genuine Jacobean culture and, in particular, this type of welcome, so historically linked to the Camino.

We take this opportunity to send you the latest updated list of existing ATJ Spaces on the Camino del Norte and the Primitivo. We have also attached the logo of our association. It is our intention to place this logo at the entrance of the associated spaces so that they can be easily identified by pilgrims.

As always, we are at your disposal for any additional information you may require. We are currently using this email address, but in the near future we will send you a new one that will be created for the exclusive use of the ATJ association.

We appreciate your attention and look forward to hearing from you.

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF TRADITIONAL JACOBEAN HOSPITALITY SPACES ON THE CAMINOS DE SANTIAGO (ATJ).

------------------

And here is the accompanying list of ATJ places on the Norte and Primitivo:​

CAMINO DEL NORTE

Tu Camino
Ontón
María José
+34 645985269

Cabaña del Abuelo Peuto
Güemes
Ernesto
+34 942 621122

Izarra
Caborredondo
Giulia
+34 689622344

Aves de Paso
Pendueles
Anna
+34 676620094

Duesos
Caravia
Marisol y José Luís
+34 611688162

La Llamarga
Tornón
Se abrirá en abril y hasta entonces no hay teléfono

La Casa de Montse
Carda
Montse
+34 651068840

La Ferrería (Closed and relocating)
Amandi
Sergio
+34 646516846

San Martín
San Martín de Laspra
María
+34 611570284

La Reguera
Soto de Luiña
Elena y Jacin
+34 630777409

Refugio La Lionesa
La Candanosa de Muñas
Andreas
+34 655596486

La Casa del Peregrino
Otur
Mercedes
+34 627887507

Granja de Calor
Villamartín Pequeño
Freddy y Nicole
+34 622413708

Triskel
Lourenzá
Ana
+34 696570192

O Bisonte de Maariz
Maariz, Mondoñedo
Karmela
+34 626766235


CAMINO PRIMITIVO

El Güertu
Colloto
Meri
+34 698949746

Villa de Grado
Grado
Voluntarios
+34 985 752766

Casita Mandala
San Marcelo
Patrick
+34 613014607

Roca Madre
La Rodriga
Irene y Diego
+34 638176862

Fontenonaya
Porciles
Nicolás
+34 653247007

Albergue de Bodenaya
Bodenaya
Allison y Alberto
+34 645888984

El Cruce
La Espina
Carmen
+34 639365210

Casa Pascual nº8
El Espín
Silvia
+34 606242097

Polagrino
Pola de Allande
Stef
+31 616100701

I agree. Too many “do the Camino instead of experiencing it” hopefully some of the spiritual essence will touch them nevertheless
Buen Camino

 

[dick bird]

An albergue whether private or public, fixed fee or donativo, has the legal right to refuse admission to anyone so long as they don’t do it for discriminatory reasons. Donativo albergues run by organizations such as Hosvol and FICS have a strict policy of admitting anyone travelling on foot with a credencial, but it is a self imposed rule. Would the new association agree to such a policy? The donativo system is open to abuse, especially along the north coast of Spain. Economists call it ‘the tragedy of the commons’. I would be interested to know how they would deal with that. I am also interested to know how the new association is liaising with the Spanish Federación de Amigos etc and FICS.

 

[C clearly]

perhaps wrath was too strong a word.

Yes, I would say so, and it hurts/offends in a similar way as those purportedly dismissive comments you objected to.

 

[Kathar1na]

comments like "Sadly, we are now witnessing the Camino becoming a tourist route, removed from its original spiritual purpose"

I, too, noticed this line and found it odd. No doubt a good 800-1200 years ago, pilgrims went to Santiago for spiritual-religious reasons. The roads themselves were just roads for any kind of travellers. The current revival, since the 1960s or so, was not driven by the same reasons. Initially, there was a distinct and important cultural-historical motive and nowadays there is emphasis on a vaguely defined transformative element for the individual walker which ranges from “it made me a better person“ to “it made me be closer to God“. You often read that posters define themselves as spiritual but not religious.

I don’t really know what they want to say with this line but I would not interpret it as excluding a camino walker from staying in donation-based albergues who defines as a humanist.

 

[David]

Perhaps this new 'tourist pilgrim' problem will go away? With virtual reality and AI and blogging and twittering and so on?
Surely the next development will be 'doing' the Camino without leaving your home town?

This sort of thing? When you have walked a day stage the machine prints a sello onto your credential? And a compostela when you 'arrive'?
Then there won't be any potential conflict at refugios??

They could have Alexa making snoring and farting sounds all night .... Mind you, they would have to hire a house robot to keep in their bedroom and at 4 or 5am, rustle plastic bags and shine a torch into their eyes.

 

[Bradypus]

Perhaps this new 'tourist pilgrim' problem will go away? With virtual reality and AI and blogging and twittering and so on?
Surely the next development will be doing the Camino without leaving your home town?

A few weeks ago I signed up for gym membership in Swansea as part of an attempt to shift some weight and preserve what is left of my knees. A staff member gave me an introductory tour. The first piece of equipment she showed me was a treadmill with a very flashy display screen. Which happened to be showing the descent from the summit of the Grand Saint Bernard pass in the Alps. A route I had walked some years ago. The machine couldn't replicate the huge sharp rocks on the path though...

 

[David]

A few weeks ago I signed up for gym membership in Swansea as part of an attempt to shift some weight and preserve what is left of my knees. A staff member gave me an introductory tour. The first piece of equipment she showed me was a treadmill with a very flashy display screen. Which happened to be showing the descent from the summit of the Grand Saint Bernard pass in the Alps. A route I had walked some years ago. The machine couldn't replicate the huge sharp rocks on the path though...

Oh crikey! My joke already exists??? The horror!!!

 

[dick bird]

Perhaps this new 'tourist pilgrim' problem will go away? With virtual reality and AI and blogging and twittering and so on?
Surely the next development will be 'doing' the Camino without leaving your home town?

This sort of thing? When you have walked a day stage the machine prints a sello onto your credential? And a compostela when you 'arrive'?
Then there won't be any potential conflict at refugios??

They could have Alexa making snoring and farting sounds all night .... Mind you, they would have to hire a house robot to keep in their bedroom and at 4 or 5am, rustle plastic bags and shine a torch into their eyes.



View attachment 160328

View attachment 160329

How is this contributing to the issue being discussed? (That is a rhetorical question. Please do not try to answer it).

 

[Kathar1na]

I must admit that yet another discussion of who is a tourist and who is a pilgrim would bore me to near death and it would most likely be the death of this thread, even when it is a death steeped in some kind of humour . Luckily, we here on the forum don't actually have to decide or design the criteria about who to admit to a donation-based albergue and who to exclude. Criteria and decision are up to the owners or managers or volunteers at each of these donativo albergues.

This thread however made me curious to learn more about the actual situation of these albergues along the Camino Francés - the Camino most of us are most familiar with. I found a list of donativo albergues that a French pilgrim drew up not so long ago. I checked some of the entries on Gronze and added some details and links to their entry on Gronze. I can't vouch for accuracy or completeness. A good number are owned by a religious institution such as a parish ("albergue parroquial") or a monastery. Some are owned or managed by non-Spanish Camino associations. Two or three are apparently owned and run by individuals. FWIW.

- Zabaldika: Albergue parroquial​

- Estella: Albergue parroquial San Miguelo​

- Viana: Albergue parroquial Santa Maria​

- Logroño: Albergue parroquial Santiago el Real​

- Grañon: Albergue parroquial San Juan Bautista​

- Grañon: Casa de las Sonrisas (individual/private)​

- Belorado: Albergue parroquial de Belorado (volunteers from a Swiss associaction)​

- Tosantos: Albergue parroquial San Francisco de Asis​

- Tardajos: Albergue de peregrinos (volunteers from a Madrid association)​

- Convento de San Antón​

- Ermita de San Nicolas (volunteers from an Italian association)​

- Fromista: Acogida de Invierno Betania (only during the winter months)​

- Villalcazar de Sirga: Albergue de peregrinos ("donativo responsable" i.e. minimum donation required)​

- Calzada del Coto: Albergue San Roque​

- Bercianos del Real Camino: Albergue parroquial Casa Rectoral​

- Calzadilla de Los Hermanillos: Albergue de peregrinos​

- El Burgo Ranero: Albergue Domenico Laffi​

- Villadangos del Paramo: Albergue de peregrinos​

- Santa Catalina de Somoza: Albergue La Bohème (individual/private)​

- Rabanal del Camino: Refugio Gaucelmo (volunteers from a British association)​

- Foncebadon: Albergue parroquial Domus Dei​

- El Acebo: Albergue parroquial Santiago Apostol​

- Ponferrada: Albergue parroquial San Nicolas de Flüe​

- Valtuille de Arriba: Acogida La Biznaga (individual/private)​

- Samos: Albergue del Monasterio​

- Ligonde: Albergue La Fuente del Peregrino​

​

Source:
Liste Donativos et Lieux de Bivouac GR65 / Camino Frances & https://transfert.free.fr/FEWyxUz and Gronze.com (Nov 2023)

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Who owns and staffs what albergue is very arcane info that doesn't usually interest many people. There are several non-profit places missing from this list, and a couple of them are misidentified... but it doesn't matter much.
This is the backstage part of the camino drama, where some pilgrims graduate to the next level: service. The networking, goodwill, horse-trading and POLITICS that keeps this network open and alive can be pretty mind-boggling. The volunteers and the donativos are, in my opinion, the lasting miracle that makes the Camino de Santiago unique, and makes it simply function. Once we lose this "Acogida Tradicional," we really will be just another tourism product.
Support your local donativo/non-profit albergue! Instead of walking another camino next time, consider contributing some time and labor to making the Camino happen for others!

 

[Kirkie]

I must admit that yet another discussion of who is a tourist and who is a pilgrim would bore me to near death and it would most likely be the death of this thread, even when it is a death steeped in some kind of humour . Luckily, we here on the forum don't actually have to decide or design the criteria about who to admit to a donation-based albergue and who to exclude. Criteria and decision are up to the owners or managers or volunteers at each of these donativo albergues.

This thread however made me curious to learn more about the actual situation of these albergues along the Camino Francés - the Camino most of us are most familiar with. I found a list of donativo albergues that a French pilgrim drew up not so long ago. I checked some of the entries on Gronze and added some details and links to their entry on Gronze. I can't vouch for accuracy or completeness. A good number are owned by a religious institution such as a parish ("albergue parroquial") or a monastery. Some are owned or managed by non-Spanish Camino associations. Two or three are apparently owned and run by individuals. FWIW.

- Zabaldika: Albergue parroquial​

- Estella: Albergue parroquial San Miguelo​

- Viana: Albergue parroquial Santa Maria​

- Logroño: Albergue parroquial Santiago el Real​

- Grañon: Albergue parroquial San Juan Bautista​

- Grañon: Casa de las Sonrisas (individual/private)​

- Belorado: Albergue parroquial de Belorado (volunteers from a Swiss associaction)​

- Tosantos: Albergue parroquial San Francisco de Asis​

- Tardajos: Albergue de peregrinos (volunteers from a Madrid association)​

- Convento de San Antón​

- Ermita de San Nicolas (volunteers from an Italian association)​

- Fromista: Acogida de Invierno Betania (only during the winter months)​

- Villalcazar de Sirga: Albergue de peregrinos ("donativo responsable" i.e. minimum donation required)​

- Calzada del Coto: Albergue San Roque​

- Bercianos del Real Camino: Albergue parroquial Casa Rectoral​

- Calzadilla de Los Hermanillos: Albergue de peregrinos​

- El Burgo Ranero: Albergue Domenico Laffi​

- Villadangos del Paramo: Albergue de peregrinos​

- Santa Catalina de Somoza: Albergue La Bohème (individual/private)​

- Rabanal del Camino: Refugio Gaucelmo (volunteers from a British association)​

- Foncebadon: Albergue parroquial Domus Dei​

- El Acebo: Albergue parroquial Santiago Apostol​

- Ponferrada: Albergue parroquial San Nicolas de Flüe​

- Valtuille de Arriba: Acogida La Biznaga (individual/private)​

- Samos: Albergue del Monasterio​

- Ligonde: Albergue La Fuente del Peregrino​

​

Source:
Liste Donativos et Lieux de Bivouac GR65 / Camino Frances & https://transfert.free.fr/FEWyxUz and Gronze.com (Nov 2023)

As ever, careful and helpful background work - another service to pilgrims. Thanks.

 

[David Tallan]

Perhaps this new 'tourist pilgrim' problem will go away? With virtual reality and AI and blogging and twittering and so on?
Surely the next development will be 'doing' the Camino without leaving your home town?

This sort of thing? When you have walked a day stage the machine prints a sello onto your credential? And a compostela when you 'arrive'?
Then there won't be any potential conflict at refugios??

They could have Alexa making snoring and farting sounds all night .... Mind you, they would have to hire a house robot to keep in their bedroom and at 4 or 5am, rustle plastic bags and shine a torch into their eyes.



View attachment 160328

View attachment 160329

I know that some people like to watch BK Lee's videos (real time videos of the complete Camino Frances) while on the treadmill. Personally, I don't see a problem nor anything terribly amusing about it. I don't think anyone thinks it a substitute for a real Camino. Your mileage may vary, of course.

 

[ivar]

I will close this thread, I think this is an important topic, but it seems it is difficult for us to not get personal... the important part is the announcement (see the first post).