- Time of past OR future Camino
- 2015-2023 walked all or part of CF 11 times
For 2024 Pilgrims: €50,- donation = 1 year with no ads on the forum + 90% off any 2024 Guide. More here. (Discount code sent to you by Private Message after your donation) |
---|
If you are really interested google mito botafumeiro. There was a flurry of articles about 4 years ago. There’s also at least one thread on the forum. Julio Vázquez Castro is a specialist scholar from the Santiago University who did a detailed study, Antonio Neira de Mosquera is the name of the journalist from the 19th century who is the originator of the myth. As I said it’s indestructible. It’s in many books, including history books, and people like to hear and tell it.
Be careful of confusing the divine with bureaucracy. Cathedral authorities are completely responsible for repairs, openings and closings. If it is divine, no individual has been singled out. Millions have not been able to get close to the Porltico da Gloria for years, and the select few now must pay for a tour! Luck is better than brilliance any day!!I still haven't seen the Portico da Gloria. It hasn't been meant for me to see it yet.
Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Love it!!!! How did you meet this historian? Was it on a tour that you took or by chance? Just wondering. I will be walking starting October 29th from SJPP and should arrive in early December into SDC. If it was at some kind of tour or lecture I would love to check that out when I arrived.
Thank you so much for this suggestion. As soon as I saw the cover I had a good laugh because about 3 days before my first Camino my daughter found this book in a used book store and bought it for me. It was way to big to take with me and I promised myself I would read it when I returned. Of course I never did and now I have moved and I think the book was bought at my garage sale. I also remember that the authors were interviewed on a podcast. I did some searching and it is still available. The podcast is called "The Camino Podcast". There have not been any new episodes for a few years but they were interviewed on August 29, 2016, Episode 23 called The Pioneers. You might want to check it out.You might like the book The Pilgrimage Road to Santiago: The Complete Cultural Handbook, by Gilitz. It was written sometime ago, but it's got great history-- Gilitz took his college class on the camino in the '90s. I read it while walking my first camino. You can get it on kindle-- though on kindle the maps are too small to read. Here is the amazon link: https://www.amazon.com/Pilgrimage-Road-Santiago-Complete-Cultural-ebook/dp/B0091I0YOE/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2W6CF3FLD9VMO&keywords=history+of+the+camino+de+santiago&qid=1560436684&s=gateway&sprefix=history+camino+,aps,136&sr=8-4
In my humble opinion the whole walk is in a Cathedral one of nature’s thinnest places!
I had the impression that the botafumeiro swings a lot during the Jacobean Holy Years, at least in recent times. This article was written at the eve of the last Jacobean Year (2010) so I don't know how it worked out in the end but it sounds promising for the next Jacobean Year in 2021. Here's a summary of the article published in November 2009: The donation for setting the botafumeiro in action was raised from €240 to €300. The Cathedral was planning to swing it on their own account on 25 occasions (including solemn feast days). Apart from these fixed dates, the tiraboleiros were prepared to swing it every time the pilgrims or the faithful wanted to finance it. More or less, twice a day. 800 times throughout the year.
It sounds like the story that in the middle ages they used lots of spices to cover up the taste of rotten meat. That was printed in text books for a while, too. It was a fun story and spread quickly and easily. Apparently no one stopped to compare the cost of fresh meat and the cost of spices. Only the wealthy could afford spices and the same wealthy could afford fresh meat whenever they wanted. And, of course, spices won't prevent the gastro-intestinal effects of rotten meat. Pity the poor cook that wastes a lot of expensive spices trying to cover up rotten meat and, in the process makes his lord very sick. But the story seems to be indesctructible.If you are really interested google mito botafumeiro. There was a flurry of articles about 4 years ago. There’s also at least one thread on the forum. Julio Vázquez Castro is a specialist scholar from the Santiago University who did a detailed study, Antonio Neira de Mosquera is the name of the journalist from the 19th century who is the originator of the myth. As I said it’s indestructible. It’s in many books, including history books, and people like to hear and tell it.
Sorry, I wasn't clear. That's what I meant by walking (going on pilgrimage) "to venerate the relics". They walked it to get to the presence of the relics so that they could reap the spiritual benefits therefrom. And the closer those relics were in association to Jesus, the greater the spiritual benefit. That's why Rome and Santiago were so important. They had relics of actual direct disciples. Although, I wouldn't rule out the possibility that, in addition to that central act of pilgrimage, some pilgrims may have added an element of "mortifying the flesh" to the action of pilgrimage: walking when they didn't need to, walking barefoot, even self-flagellation, etc. as a separate but accompanying act of spriritual purification.Not quite. They walked because in those days it was felt that it was very important to be as physically close to the relics as possible. In those days, the journey was not the destination. The destination was the destination. And those who walked didn't walk by choice but by necessity. They had no other means of travel available to them.
All this has changed. And @AshleyF has pointed out, quite correctly, that our contemporary thinking is quite different from medieval thinking as to the benefits of travelling to a saint's physical sanctuary on earth.
I have a physical copy but it is the Kindle version I take with me when I walk. I wish I could find something similar for the other Camino routes.Thank you so much for this suggestion. As soon as I saw the cover I had a good laugh because about 3 days before my first Camino my daughter found this book in a used book store and bought it for me. It was way to big to take with me and I promised myself I would read it when I returned. Of course I never did and now I have moved and I think the book was bought at my garage sale. I also remember that the authors were interviewed on a podcast. I did some searching and it is still available. The podcast is called "The Camino Podcast". There have not been any new episodes for a few years but they were interviewed on August 29, 2016, Episode 23 called The Pioneers. You might want to check it out.
I will download the Kindle Version for sure. Thanks so much.
2021Thinking of future walks. ... and my vocation requires that I plan far in advance ...
When will the Cathedral reopen?
Same here. For me it was all about the journey. Can't wait to get back in 2020.Count me in the ranks that found the arrival in Santiago quite anticlimatic.
I still don't know exactly why.
Thank you JabbaPapa. Very well said.It's 'til about mid-2020 apparently.
The renovations will be executed in stages, and various parts of the Cathedral will be closed over the remaining 12 or so months of this work, while other parts of the building will be open.
The work was originally planned to last about 6 months, but it was discovered that a far longer period of restoration and renovation was necessary -- this is NOT due to "poor preparation", but it is due to the fact that the damage that was discovered turned out to be far worse than they initially thought it to be.
If you want to obtain the Indulgence that is associated with the Pilgrimage to Santiago, then attending Mass there is a requirement -- and if you personally felt it were necessary, you can still attend Mass every day at 11 AM, during these works, at the original Cathedral Altar in the Corticela.
Catholics vary in their devotion to relics, but it's worth realising that the "foundation stone" of every altar of every church must be a relic.
Sorry, but it's bad theology, and not Catholic, to suggest that "no separate identity" exists in the Church of the Christ in Heaven -- if that were so, how then would you explain visions and apparitions of various Saints, many of which events have been recognised by the Church ?
This notion of the loss of individual identity is of Buddhist origin, and it does not belong to the Faith.
erm, the answer to that is yes.
The use of that large censer within the mass at that Cathedral is certainly spectacular and can be joyous to see, but in the liturgical sense it is no different to the much smaller ones used everywhere else.
It is in any case not central at all to the Holy Mass at Santiago, even though it is very understandable that it should be a particular attraction for many people wishing to visit the cathedral and attend Mass there when it is in use.
It seems odd to me that you should put so much importance on the Botafumeiro, after having pointed out that the Mass at the Cathedral is fundamentally the same as the Mass anywhere else -- and indeed, the Mass is the Mass is the Mass.
I'd certainly not delay my current Camino for such reasons, but it has been delayed on two occasions now for a combination of injury, health needs, and stuff that I need to do at home ; not for reasons of partial inaccessibility to the Cathedral and no Masses at the main altar and etc.
There always has been and always will be an aspect of "religious tourism" to these sorts of pilgrimages, whether you undertake them quickly using motor transport or very slowly on foot, which I certainly would not denigrate as such things can form part of some people's own spirituality -- but in the Catholic sense, to undertake the Pilgrimage is to visit the relics of the Apostle, and then to attend the Mass at Santiago which in itself need not technically be at the high altar of the Cathedral but at church within the city.
Ideally yes at that high altar, but the daily 11 AM mass at the Capilla de la Corticela is for all religious and liturgical purposes a Holy Mass at the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostela. So the possibility remains to fulfil ALL of one's religious requirements at Compostela during the period of these works, with only the use of the Botafumeiro lacking, which is hardly an essential part of those pilgrimage obligations.
So really no, I would certainly not delay a Camino over such a small matter, and certainly not in any case where the only lengthy enough period of available time were upon me, with who knows how many years 'til a future window of opportunity might open again ...
VERY WELL SAID!! TOUCHE!!!Ashley, as mentioned before: arriving in Santiago de Compostela is for many of us a disappointment,. because of all the tourists that are walking there, all the souvenirshops, the tourists with their guides with umbrellas disturbing the quietness in the cathedral, but ...... the tourists are the ones who pay for the botafumeiro at the END of the mass. Nothing more, nothing less. It has nothing to do with the mass itself.
The real spirit of a pilgrims mass you can undergo on your way, in nearly every little village along the Camino you can attend a pilgrim's mass, where you will be blessed on your way to Santiago de Compostela. Where old Spanish men and women say the old prayers and sing the old churchsongs.
When reading whast you wrote I think you feel yourself a bit special, more special than others. One lesson you learn walking a Camino is that nobody is special, or, on the other hand: everybody is special.
You are not the only one travelling from far; people from all over the world walk the Camino; from Japan, from Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Russia, Korea, China, and they all have their reasons and they all had to buy a flight ticket.
Renovations of a huge cathedral like the one in SdC take many, many years. Over the last years the outside of the cathedral was in a renovation, which means that all the pilgrims arriving in SdC could not have a nice photo of themselves with the cathedral in the background; it was hidden by blue cloth.
Now the outside is beatiful again, the inside is undertaken.
For most people this is a problem, not only for you. Many people do the Camino over a few years, every year walking two or three weeks. Other people wait until they are retired (as I did) because they never can take five weeks leave.
So stop being disappointed, be grateful and humble instead: you CAN walk the Camino, you apparantly have the money, your body is not suffering from any illness which prevents you from walking day by day.
Enjoy life and enjoy your Camino! On the Camino you will learn the most important lesson, which itself is a lesson for life: you take it as it is: the path, the albergues, the food, the pain, the blisters, but also the Camino friends, the companionship, the conversations with other pilgrims.
7000 NZD ? Does that include airfare? Just curious.PLEASE GO. DON'T CANCEL KEEP THE FAITH.
I am from New Zealand and I am YOU ! Was a lapsed Catholic I have now found my faith.
I walked the Camino three times from St john. in the last two years.
My first walk was for me I needed it. I wanted to meet two old friends that I had fallen out of favor with I had lost their love and respect. I meet them after the first day. They said they were happy to walk the Camino with me they could already see the change in me. The two friends that I meet. One was Me and the other was God.
So I was there four weeks ago you can still enter the Cathedral and hug the statue of st Jame at the back of the alter. The place is full of scaffolding.
But you will find the faith in the people the locals along the way the little churches the spiritual atmosphere in the small village churches is so thick that you could slice pieces of it and eat it for dinner.
Also walk it on your own I walked it on my own the first time and it changed my life. The second time I walked it with eight others for a film / doc,. not the same and may I say not that good then this time I went with my daughter this one was physically very hard but very rewarding.
For your fist time ( yes you will be back) walk it on your own keep your mind or hart and your soul open. and let the Camino fill them up.
You may be concerned about the amount of people walking it now. Walk through the popular end of day destinations and stay at the smaller villages it can be more satisfying.
If you consider leaving the walk till 2021 when the Cathedral will reopen ( they hope) be aware that the numbers may grow from an already bursting 300,000 to maybe 500,000.
Cost of doing it ? It costs me 7,000 NZ dollars each time.
I am writing a book at the moment called Gods Cocaine the addiction of the Camino. I think that says it all.
Go and do it Good luck and God bless, my friend.
Did they really walk it to see the cathedral? What if St. James had been some place else? What if the botafumiero was some place else?It is easy for those who do not walk the Camino for religious reasons or those that have walked it before and were able to experience the joy of the cathedral in Santiago upon finishing to say it doesn't matter. That the walk is more important, or that the cathedral will always be there for later visits etc etc etc. I say that if the SDC cathedral part of the Camino is that important to you for sure cancel (if possible) your current plans and reschedule. I certainly would if I had not walked it before. It was an important part of the Camino to me and still is.
After all, it is the sole reason the Way of Saint James exists. Medieval pilgrims did not walk it to rethink career choices, celebrate retirement, get over a recent divorce or breakup, try and lose weight, get more fit, cheap vacation, get a compostela to put in their CV or university application, pen a quick book to put on amazon, make a youtube video with a million views etc.
They walked it for Saint James and seeing the cathedral.
OOPs!! I meant 2020. From what I have been told it will be late summer/early fall?2021
This question seems a bit odd, perhaps facetious, especially the inquiry of the botafumeiro (what the .... ?Did they really walk it to see the cathedral? What if St. James had been some place else? What if the botafumiero was some place else?
View attachment 59210
Been wondering about this...whether it's 'trolling' or not, it would be nice to hear back. In any event, it's been wonderful to read all the posts!!!
WOW!!! Was not trying to be facetious. Trying to get clarification. GOD BLESS YOU!! (still not facetious).This question seems a bit odd, perhaps facetious, especially the inquiry of the botafumeiro (what the .... ?).
I'm certainly not going to write or even cut and paste a lengthy history of the Way of Saint James. My best advice would be to research it on the internet, or perhaps if you don't have one already, simply get a guidebook for the Way. They all have a brief history of it in them. Takes very little time to read.
Happy reading and happy educating.
Do we really need to know? Isn’t the initial post more an expression of disappointment than an anything else? And a splendid occasion for many of us to express their opinion about their Camino experience and related topics?OP, What have you decided?
I am not sure whether this comment is addressed to me personally or a general one. My reply is a general one. I read in the initial message that "in the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with incense by the botafumeiro". That's one view, both of the role of the scene in the movie and of the role of the botafumeiro in a pilgrim mass. I've been aware of the various roles attributed to censers/thuribles in general and the botafumeiro in particular for a long time. It was only through participating in this thread that I realised that the role of the later is different whether it's a pilgrim mass or a mass on a day of particular solemnity in Santiago.If you really need it to swing, then finance it yourself, after the Cathedral will have reopened for the Mass. It's not a "right" that's been "taken away", that amount of incense is expensive.
Ik ben niet catoliek dus ik onthoud me van commentaar. Beter zo dan schop ik niet tegen zere schenen!Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Yes absolutely worth doing but only you can know. It almost sounds like your goal is to worship on Santiago. You'll be able to do that in the beautiful San Francisco church at mass, as well as see the apostle's tomb. But the inside of the cathedral is very taken up with works at the moment.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
You could turn this around and view it as an opportunity to create a unique Camino from the millions who have gone before you. The Church of St Francis is steps from the Cathedral Square. There are churches along the Way that offer pilgrims mass and blessings.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Respectfully, yes.Am I making too much out of this. . . .
We came back from our Camino just a couple of weeks ago. The Pilgrim’s mass is held in a beautiful church near the Cathedral. That being said, I went to an early morning mass en route in Arzúa and found that one much more spiritually uplifting. For me, the magic of the Camino is to walk along beautiful tracks and meet lovely people. The journey is just as important as the destination.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Hi AshleyF, you are quite right to be deeply disappointed. For those people that walk the pilgrimage only to pay they respect to the Apostle James and not to be able to do so at the end of they journey and not to be able to go near the shrine is like a punch in the stomach. After all the things that are happening on the camino, this would be the last straw. I would suggest to all those pilgrim, to wait a few years until everythingHi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
I am not Catholic but I also was inspired by the movie “ The WayHi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
I am not Catholic but I too was inspired by the movie “The Way”. The scene where they gHi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
well saidLoosely quoting the pastor interviewed in Six Ways to Santiago, ‘if you go to Santiago hoping to find Him, you won’t find Him there unless you take Him with you.’. I hope you find in your Camino what you are truly seeking.
Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Those who are walking the Camino only to pay respect to St. James are still able to do that.For those people that walk the pilgrimage only to pay they respect to the Apostle James and not to be able to do so at the end of they journey and not to be able to go near the shrine is like a punch in the stomach.
I was just reflecting today how silly it seems to think that God is only in churches that people built and in rituals that men made up.So yes, I do think the OP is posing as a devout Catholic to 'stir the pot' and slam all who believe in a diety much bigger than any cathedral, or ritual spectac les.
Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
I say go! It's the Camino that is important not the Cathedral Buen CaminoIf you are that concerned, don't go.
But I think for most Pilgrims who have walked a Camino (including those who have walked for Religious / Spiritual reasons as I do), they would probably say the same thing.
It really has very little to do with the Cathedral
I think you only realise that, once you have walked a Camino.
Maybe our Catholic Pilgrims here will have a different view?
Pilgrim masses will be held in the church of St Francis just a short hop skip and jump from the cathedral. It is a beautiful church in its own right and as a Catholic, you should know that the Mass is a beautiful thing regardless of surroundings. When it was outlawed in Ireland, the Irish climbed the mountains to hear Mass by what became known as 'Mass Rocks'. Along the route, you will find many beautiful churches where special Masses will be said for the pilgrims in town and you will get so many 'pilgrim blessings', you wont need another for years to come. In particular, the Mass and Vespers in Rabanal are not to be missed. If you are doing it as a Catholic for religious reasons, you will not be disappointed. If you are doing it as a physical challenge for no particular spiritual reason, you will not be disappointed. However, if you are doing it just to see the botafumeiro, then stay at home. Regardless of the legends about the incense being used to hide the smell of unwashed pilgrims, the celebrant at Mass a few years ago explained to us that it was only ever meant as a way of giving glory to God. You can do that in St Francis without incense. As to it being clumsy, you seem to be a little late getting the information. My son was in Santiago summer of 2018 and he was told about it then. It has been public knowledge for about a year now although I thought it was only closed for one year, 2019. I use the word closed but actually, the cathedral will remain open for pilgrims wishing to go down into the crypt where the reliquary containing the bones is housed. For the local parishioners, and you if you wish to join in, there will be daily Mass in one of the small side chapels. Enjoy your pilgrimage and may the Grace of God be with you every step. Buen Camino.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
There will be a lot of other South Africans onThe Way.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
I just checked the price of flights. I found a round-trip ticket Johannesburg-Madrid for under $500--$300 less than one from my airport on the east coast of the US.I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
There is no need for documentation. Incense has been used in Catholic services for liturgical reasons since the beginning of Christianity. At a Mass there a few years ago, a Bishop celebrating Mass pointed out that the only reason is to give glory to God and no other reason. The church did not put up the botafumeiro just to cover the smell although that was probably a useful side effect. The smell may also be something of a myth. Most pilgrims in medieval times stopped at Lavacolla to bathe and cleanse themselves before entering the city. The really large crowds of pilgrims grew in later years after the rediscovery of the relics which were hidden away because Drake planned to raid the city and take the bones to England. By the time of the rediscovery, there was no botafumeiro as it had been stolen by Napoleans troops and never seen again. No, I am afraid the old story is just that, an old interesting tale. By the way, the current botafumeiro is the third although I have read somewhere that it may be the fourth. If you look closely, you will see an old botafumeiro, the one that replaced the one stolen by the French still hanging thereI am not sure it is a myth? I was told this by a historian from SdC when we visited the Cathedral! Would be interested in reading documentation if there was another explanation for its original use....
God and the Vergin Mary have nothing to do with it, God is everywhere, The St.Apostle Santiago (one of the twelve of which we have two in EU, one is in Rome St.Peter the other is in Santiago the Compostela, at which I promised every year that I would bring to HIM Peters regard, which I did in 2017, by having done the pilgrimage walking down the last120 Km of the Via Francigena to Rome, then up on the Francigena, into France through Montginevro and the rest, I know it would have been easy flying over there but St James wouldn't have liked it ) is the one you suppose to find in Santiago the Compostela and it is the only reason for going all that way. If you want to find God, talk to your priest in your village or town, I am sure it will be able to help you.Respectfully, yes.
I am a typical "Type A" person and I love completing tasks and arriving at destinations. But even I learned that the Camino's journey is as important as (or more so than) the destination. Each time I arrived in Santiago (3 Camino walks) I spent much more time sitting in the plaza square in front of the Cathedral than inside it.
The Cathedral has a few historical items that are interesting and the Botafumeiro event is touching, but, respectfully, none of it is God; just symbols and places built by mankind to honour God. He resides in your heart if you have accepted the grace of His forgiveness through Jesus' sacrifice, and you have the choice to be in relationship with Him every day of your walk and life. The Camino walk simply gave me time away from life's distractions and allowed me to ponder this.
It is not likely the inside of the Cathedral will change your life in any way, but the journey might, or at least enlarge it. Reaching the city of Santiago and its Cathedral is a rewarding achievement which you can still do, but the journey gave me a gift that I will cherish until the day I die.
May you be blessed on your journey.
There is no need for documentation. Incense has been used in Catholic services for liturgical reasons since the beginning of Christianity. At a Mass there a few years ago, a Bishop celebrating Mass pointed out that the only reason is to give glory to God and no other reason. The church did not put up the botafumeiro just to cover the smell although that was probably a useful side effect. The smell may also be something of a myth. Most pilgrims in medieval times stopped at Lavacolla to bathe and cleanse themselves before entering the city. The really large crowds of pilgrims grew in later years after the rediscovery of the relics which were hidden away because Drake planned to raid the city and take the bones to England. By the time of the rediscovery, there was no botafumeiro as it had been stolen by Napoleans troops and never seen again. No, I am afraid the old story is just that, an old interesting tale. By the way, the current botafumeiro is the third although I have read somewhere that it may be the fourth. If you look closely, you will see an old botafumeiro, the one that replaced the one stolen by the French still hanging there
Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
The best ever mass I experienced was not even in the Cathedral of Santiago de Compostella. It was at the church on the peninsula of Muxia. Nuestra Senora de los Barcas. It wasn’t until my return from Muxia to Compostella that I saw the botafumiero swing at a mass and really I mostly watched all the people with their phones out, going back and forth like at a tennis match. I was not impressed really and sort of sad because you can see it a gazillion times on you tube. I feel like the phones got in the way of any reverence or attention to the deeper experience. Just my opinion really.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
When is it closing ?Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Can I please humbly ask for prayers and thoughts that I may discover and be open to what God has to tell me along this journey? Many people have asked why I'm doing it, but I can't explain apart from that it's been on my heart for so long
I just finished my 3rd Camino about a week ago...I am a Catholic and the pilgrims' Mass in the Cathedral in Santiago was very special, but so was every pilgrims' Mass every day along the way. Moreover, there are so many other churches along the Way, from beautiful Cathedrals in Burgos and Leon, far more architecturally impressive than the one in Santiago, to the most beautiful small shrines and hermitages. For only one example, outside Astorga beside the road is the Hermitage "Ecce Homo", with a most profound theological message on the wall behind the altar. If you have made up your mind about Santiago and the botafumeiro, then nothing here will change your mind. If your mind is not made up, consider what you will encounter spiritually many times every day along the Way.
Amen <3Speaking from a completely Traditional Catholic (old school, Latin Mass/Pre-Novous Ordo) point of view...
It's all in your perspective. If it is the Botafumeiro that you seek then, arrange for your vacation another year.
If it is a true Pilgrimage to venerate what is believed to be, some remains of Saint James AND, all that goes along with the unknown and unexpected...then, I highly recommend a Pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela.
Keep your expectations to nothing and your hopes for God to grant you the blessings of learning from your Camino experience on the front of your tongue, heart and spirit.
Camino is 'life on steroids', if you allow.
Yes, you are making too much of this.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Those were my thoughts as well as, back in 2013, my husband and I boarded a coach bound for Bayonne, where we were to make our way to SJPdP. Nearing our destination, I turned to my husband and said "I feel like I'm coming home". He said that he felt the same way too.I want to finally obey the call In that way, I'm very much like Daniel "I gotta go! I just gotta go!" Time did not diminish the desire. Derision from others did not diminish the desire.
I found SdC, after walking from SJPdP, a bit of a letdown - not the denouemont anticipated.
That said, the most intriguing and satisfying part of my journey were the hot meseta days.
Place your focus on the steps along the way - not those at the cathedral entrance - and you will be rewarded in many ways.
Intially I feel I must say, I would not base my pilgrimmage on a movie! That being said, there are a number of opportunities along the route to attend pilgrim mass. I enjoyed each and I feel the intimacy of the smaller churches and the beautiful voices of the nuns, was far more spiritual and moving to me, than the mass in the Cathedral. Also, I understood that the other churches Santiago were hosting a pilgrim mass. We arrive in October, and expected to find a pilgrim mass somewhere!Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
Hi AshleyF, you are quite right to be deeply disappointed. For those people that walk the pilgrimage only to pay they respect to the Apostle James and not to be able to do so at the end of they journey and not to be able to go near the shrine is like a punch in the stomach.
Ashley,
I experienced the Santiago Cathedral for the first time in 1977. I was not a Peregrino then, but rather a young backpacker who had spent a semester living in Malaga, Spain. I was born and raised Catholic and I was deeply touched to experience what many of us believe is the tomb of St James. 42 years later ( last year), I walked my first Camino. Although there was a sense of relief at arriving at the cathedral and seeing the botafumeiro twice in two days during mass, I was more in awe of the “journey” then the actual end. There is a pilgrim mass nearby I believe at Santa Maria de Salome church that will be just as meaningful as the one held in the cathedral. The choice is yours, but if you don’t see the botafumeiro this year, then you’ll just have to return to do another Camino. Most of us who walk one Camino find ourselves longing to do it again. For me it’s only been one year. My wife and I leave tomorrow for our second Camino!!! We plan to go back in 2021 as well, God willing! Don’t let your decision to go be determined by a huge swinging incense burner. The real Camino is the daily journey!! You will not regret it!
Just a quick word of warning: If you really want to see the botafumeiro swing, it won't be enough to postpone your trip to after the renovations are done. In 2016, when the renovations were purely exterior and had no effect whatsoever on the botafumeiro, we were there for several pilgrim masses in the summer and never saw the botafumeiro swing. There are very few days in the year when it is guaranteed. If you want to be sure of seeing it, you need to add several hundred euros to your Camino budget and plan in advance when you will arrive in Santiago, so that you can make the contribution to the cathedral far enough in advance to ensure that it swings on the day you will attend. On the plus side, as someone who has made the contribution, you are also guaranteed a good seat for the performance.Thank you for these kind and encouraging words. "The choice is yours, but if you don’t see the botafumeiro this year, then you’ll just have to return to do another Camino". I wish it were that easy. Perhaps after I am retired I will have the time for another Camino....but that's quite a while away, unfortunately.
. Yet, I would counsel you to set your anger aside. The Cathedral of St. James does its very best to accommodate the needs of each and every pilgrim. You are making deductions in ignorance and they are unwarranted.
Let go of any anger you have; accept what is without rancor; and make the best decisions for yourself. I am confident that you will have a marvelous Camino.
Thank you for this information. It's really helpful.If it's any help :
But the Cathedral will remain open for visits in the areas not under construction, you will be able to see the newly repainted Portico de la Gloria and Pilgrim Mass will be moved to different churches around the City.
...
...
- You will be able to enjoy the splendour of the newly renovated main façade, which was finally unveiled in summer 2018 after 6 years under scaffoldings.You will be able to admire the Romanesque Portico de la Gloria as Master Mateo imagined it in 1168. The Portico reopened to visitors after 10 years renovation works to recover its former colors on the 2nd of January 2019.
- You will be able to experience unique and intimate services in rarely seen Churches of Santiago, most being Romanesque treasures that used to never open for visitors
The original 9th century church of the Cathedral, the Corticela, will remain open and offer Mass at 11 am, as it is part of a different parish. Entrance into the Capilla de la Corticela is through the Cathedral next to the Puerta de la Azbachería.
...
The main solemnities and festivities will be celebrated in the Church of San Martín Pinario (the second largest building in Spain on the Azabache Square of the Cathedral).
The Cathedral will remain open to the faithful the whole time during its normal opening hours, from 9 am to 7 pm, although some spaces might be closed off. But entrance will be from the Platerías Door only. There will be a double system of entrance and exit through different doors on the Platerías Square to facilitate the circulation in the Temple.
Maybe I'm just a very ambitious person. I like to have a destination in mind to focus on or else the journey will just become me wondering about.It seems to me that for you the destination is more important than the journey. If that is so you could fly into Santiago sometime after the renovation is complete.
Sorry, I'm not a Troll. But I have very few questions unanswered. I posted on this forum because I am facing this quandary and wanted to hear the opinions of others who have more experience with the walk.I pondered this as well
OP,
What have you decided?
I just checked the price of flights. I found a round-trip ticket Johannesburg-Madrid for under $500--$300 less than one from my airport on the east coast of the US.
If we are advocating for the opposition, wasn't it you who said that the only miracle in Catholicism is transubstantiation and that the relics were mere dross? How much more so the cathedral and censor? If the statues in your family altar are symbols equal to those in Santiago, why walk so far?- "The Cathedral and Censor are just meaningless symbols" (Despite the obvious contradiction in that statement, does that mean all the Statues in our family altar should be chucked?
Admittedly in this instance. I have allowed myself to be drawn into this morass. Not good. Was not pleased with myself the instant I hit "post reply". I am better than this. My apologies to Ashley and I am so done with this thread.You forgot the greatest of pilgrim sins: judgemental. No, wait, that was someone else.
Not that I'm judging anyone.
Just go, Ashley, and see for yourself.At this point in my life, I am in great health, I have the money (barely) and most importantly the 5-6 weeks leave (that I may only get again when I retire).
That's part of her quandry. Any Catholic can stay at home and practice their religion. What they can't get by doing this is the experience they are being called too. Ashley has made the brave decision to move forward. It doesn't help her that the minute she participates in the discussion she created she is slam with scornful comments. As we move closer and closer to yet another page on this thread, there will be those who will not read through the pages of responses and comment with further insult.If we are advocating for the opposition, wasn't it you who said that the only miracle in Catholicism is transubstantiation and that the relics were mere dross? How much more so the cathedral and censor? If the statues in your family altar are symbols equal to those in Santiago, why walk so far?
For sure it will swing every July 25th, but not until renavations are completed.Just a quick word of warning: If you really want to see the botafumeiro swing, it won't be enough to postpone your trip to after the renovations are done. In 2016, when the renovations were purely exterior and had no effect whatsoever on the botafumeiro, we were there for several pilgrim masses in the summer and never saw the botafumeiro swing. There are very few days in the year when it is guaranteed. If you want to be sure of seeing it, you need to add several hundred euros to your Camino budget and plan in advance when you will arrive in Santiago, so that you can make the contribution to the cathedral far enough in advance to ensure that it swings on the day you will attend. On the plus side, as someone who has made the contribution, you are also guaranteed a good seat for the performance.
The others are right Sheen was acting. Actually in his life he very active in his faith. Our friends in SoCal attend mass at the same church and see him in mass often. I would also reiterate the pilgrimage is not about the destination but it is about the journey. I meet God on the trail, in the Alburgue and cafes, in God's creation and in other people, both the locals and the pilgrims. I enjoy attending mass in the small communities along the way with the local worshipers there and by the way I am not Catholic.Hi,
I have been in the advanced-preliminary stages of planning a Camino in September this year, planning to walk the entire route from SJPdP to Santiago, when I was handed a notice from the Archdiocese of Santiago that the Cathedral would be closed until 2021, to prepare for a Holy Year.
Although I come from one of the oldest (acknowledged) Catholic families in my country, I would be what Martin Sheen was described as - a "lapsed Catholic". [I have become a great deal more spiritual in my outlook but according to Church teaching, having received the Sacrament of Confirmation in my late teens, I am & will always be Catholic, something which still forms a part of my identity].
I had been planning to do the Camino, as I believe it is something, not only for me but in honour of my grandparents who were my first teachers in the faith. I would have been travelling from quite far (South Africa - probably being one of the few Africans on pilgrimage, presumably due to the very high costs involved for us).
Although I have read a great deal about the pilgrimage and interacted with others who have done it before, I have also been greatly inspired by Sheen's "The Way". In the movie, a great emphasis is placed on the Pilgrim's Mass in the Cathedral and in particular the censing with insense by the Boafumeiro. Catholics will recognise this point in Sheen's movie where the full realisation of his spiritual journey occurs - it is the only time when he can be seen making the sign of the Cross. For Catholics that is probably one of the most moving scenes in The Way.
The Cathedral will be closed - There will be no Pilgrims Mass there and - No blessing with Boafumeiro Incense. Instead, the Archdiocese is offering pilgrims Mass at other parishes in the diocese.
I am deeply disappointed by what seems like poor preparation on the part of the Diocese - after all, renovations that are needed should have been identified over the last Holy Year (Divine Mercy) and renovation plans executed in stages, so as not to inconvenience pilgrims who will travel from around the world (a once-in-a-lifetime experience, for many).
"Pilgrims will still be able to venerate the relic of St James the Great"???. For Catholics, the centre of our faith is the Eucharist (Mass) where we believe Christ becomes truly present. This happens as much in Santiago as it does in your neighbourhood Parish Church. So there is no real benefit to being in Santiago. As for the possibility to venerate the relic, perhaps this comes from an incomplete understanding of what a Saint is. A Saint is someone we are sure (that's why evidence such as miracles are investigated before canonisation) is in heaven and who is able to intercede for us before the Father. All Saints are united in a Communion. Doctrine holds that they stop being "St. Anne, St Joseph, or in this case St. James" and become of one essence (a single Mystical Body). So while earthly remains may exist, in the celestial realms there is no separate identity. There is no longer a St. James.
What many people may not know is that Saintly relics are placed into every altar at each Catholic Church around the world (including the one down your street!). So while the veneration of a relic is a "sacramental" (offers a blessing) the same blessing occurs at every church in the world. This means there is no ontological difference between trekking 800kms to Santiago or driving to Mass at the Church down the road.
Is the Cathedral and the Boafumeiro just a ceremony (the actual pilgrimage is what's spiritual) you may ask? The Catholic answer to that is NO. Catholics are a liturgical people, every action that takes place in a Mass has a special connotation (ceremony - we call them "rites" - matter a great deal to us!). And the "seat" of St James is his Cathedral.
I am indeed very disappointed, to the point where I am prepared to cancel the trip. [I actually feel like having a very serious conversation with our Apostolic Nuncio - the Pope's representative - over what can only be called clumsy handling of this matter by the Archdiocese of Santiago]. I doubt that for the next few decades me making this trip will be possible, finding 5 weeks of leave is very difficult for those of us who have jobs in the "real" world.
Am I making too much out of this, or do you think that others should/will (at least) defer their trips? [I'm particularly interested in hearing from my Catholic brothers/sisters on this].
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?