Do I need to learn some Spanish before my camino? Yeah, you probably should...

[JustJack]

Perhaps the one thing that surprised me more than anything else when I started walking the CF in May is how little English is spoken in Northern Spain. Or more precisely, how seldom there is English signage, menus, etc., as compared to other countries.

And before some of you start haughtily replying that it's the visitors' obligation to learn Spanish, not the locals' obligation to cater to non-Spanish speakers, let me articulate my point a bit more.

I've travelled fairly extensively in my life, and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is. I've experienced this in many countries - pretty much any business that has had one or two foreigners stop by in the past will have some sort of paper with some English on it for future customers.

Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.

Again, before people start jumping down my throat, I'm not suggesting that the business owners/workers should be obliged to learn to speak English. But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes. Why, when 90% of your customers are speaking English (English being the default language when a group of koreans, germans, french, etc are gathered) would you, as a business owner, not translate your menu? It just seems like such an obvious thing to do from a business perspective.

The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English. Heck even in the big cathedrals of Burgos and Leon, all the signage is in Spanish only. I did see one sign translated into English - the one asking for donations .

So do you need to speak Spanish to walk a camino? No of course not. But if I knew then what I know now I would have spent some time learning all the relevant words for Spanish food and drink, as that would have made things much easier for me, and I wouldn't have had to resort to simply pointing at things under the glass when I went into a bar... Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus. At times I would take a photo of the menu, then go back to my albergue where I had wifi and use Google to translate the menu, then return to the restaurant to order. Ridiculous I know, but it is what it is, and I was wholly unprepared from a language perspective. Lesson learned. Ordering food, booking accommodation, and understanding numbers - if you can learn this amount of Spanish before your camino you'll be glad once you're there. As for myself, happily towards the end of my camino I had gotten much better, and could confidently order a handful of dishes. But I'll be doing a crash course before my next camino. I know I missed out on lots of delicious food opportunities simply because I didn't know how to order it.

 

[trecile]

Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus.

If you download the Spanish language pack on Google Translate you can also use it offline.

 

[JustJack]

If you download the Spanish language pack on Google Translate you can also use it offline.

Sure, now you tell me...

 

[Pathfinder075]

Spanish phrase book is your basic requirement. It works when phones and tablets don't. If you have specific things you need to ask, like "can I book a bed for tomorrow night", make a crib sheet and laminate it. Eventually you won't need it.

While it's nice to be able to speak the local language, you can get by without it. I speak very little Spanish. I know a handful of useful phrases and I get by with those. I also have the crib sheets

 

[JustJack]

Spanish phrase book is your basic requirement. It works when phones and tablets don't. If you have specific things you need to ask, like "can I book a bed for tomorrow night", make a crib sheet and laminate it. Eventually you won't need it.

While it's nice to be able to speak the local language, you can get by without it. I speak very little Spanish. I know a handful of useful phrases and I get by with those. I also have the crib sheets

A phrase book would have been handy. I didn’t bring one due to the perceived weight. I managed fine with almost no Spanish, but as I mentioned, my culinary experience there would have been greatly enhanced if I knew more of the food-related words. Particularly when I was in the larger cities and off the Camino for a day. Many of the bars had extensive wonderful looking menus, and it sucked that I couldn’t read them. But now I know, and I’ll make more of an effort the next time.

 

[Dani7]

I regret not leaning Spanish for my spring Camino and aim to correct that for future ones. For me it’s more about speaking with the villagers and locals to interact with them and learn more about their village, it’s history and customs etc…rather than read from the web. I could have had so many interesting conversations like the time a very old gentleman in a small village thought I could understand him as I had some basic phrases learned. I sensed he wanted some company sitting by a monument and fountain and all I could do is nod and say ‘si’ here and there as if I understood what he was saying.

…so I aim to correct that for next time. And if I’m lucky…I’ll have some lovely conversations and exchanges with young and old.

 

[David with new Kit!]

I had an apartment (timeshare) in southern Spain for 25 years and did not learn Spanish as everyone spoke English (very touristy area).

This came back to bite me on my 2019 CF I realised when going through the small villages that no one spoke English. I started to learn Spanish from 2020 and it certainly helped on the Norte last year. You are correct, in northern Spain, apart from the cities, no one speaks English and I think that's because a very large proportion of tourists are Spanish.

I agree with you that you can get by with very little Spanish, and as you mention above some travel/accommodation/food words will help too.

Despite that, I do hope that you enjoyed your Camino.

 

[Former member 104756]

Unfortunately, I don't speak Spanish but, like many, I guess I speak Camino Spanish, enough to be friendly, courteous and cover the essentials. I have a 2 pager I print out double sided and take with me when I visit or walk in Spain. I took this on my first Camino in 2011. I don't use it often these days, but I like having it folded up somewhere handy. I know it's old fashioned to print something but for this purpose - simple exchanges - I prefer to using my phone. I've attached it if it's of any use. I am not able to attach a Word file.

PS It's very possible I've made some mistakes - but nothing serious!

 

[MikeJS]

I have enough simple phrase to get by and otherwise use the SayHi app which will allow you to converse very easily!

 

[Anhalter]

It seems that people that take a lot of pride in their culture are sometimes a bit reluctant to offer menus (or other things) in english. The french have been pretty notorious for this and i can remember my dad telling me a story of a high class hotel with a michelin starred restaurant somewhere in France where nobody spoke english. I agree that from the outside it seems to be the logical thing for someone working in hospitality to have some way to facilitate communication with customers that come from a different country and don't speak the language. Plainly because it makes it easier for them to spend their money at your establishment.

However it seems that this is only changing slowly. But it is. On my Camino last year lots of places had menus in other languages, sometimes even with pictures. I have to say, i am not a huge fan of this, but i can understand that it helps many people. For me it's a bit of the other way around. I've been travelling Spain for so long that i know most dishes by their spanish name and potentially not the english one. So i've been using my broken spanish a few times to ask for a spanish menu...

 

[Bradypus]

I'm surprised to read the comments about the lack of English on the CF. Having walked it for the 4th time this January I was struck by just how much is now available in English and other foreign languages (notably Korean) compared with my early experience when I could have counted my fellow English-speakers for the whole 800km on my fingers. These days I mostly walk the less popular routes and my default assumption is that Spanish (or Gallego) will be the only language encountered. It is well worth investing in a local SIM card and data to have fully functioning translation apps at hand. My walking in rural Japan would have been vastly more complicated without them.

 

[Former member 104756]

My walking in rural Japan would have been vastly more complicated without them.

That’s for sure.

 

[Luka]

I'm surprised to read the comments about the lack of English on the CF. Having walked it for the 4th time this January I was struck by just how much is now available in English and other foreign languages (notably Korean) compared with my early experience when I could have counted my fellow English-speakers for the whole 800km on my fingers. These days I mostly walk the less popular routes and my default assumption is that Spanish (or Gallego) will be the only language encountered. It is well worth investing in a local SIM card and data to have fully functioning translation apps at hand. My walking in rural Japan would have been vastly more complicated without them.

Exactly this. The amount of English spoken on the Francés is imcomparable with the less walked Caminos.

I think there is a very logical explanation why a lot of Spaniards don't speak English (very well). Spaniards used to go on holiday within Spain (so no need for learning a foreign language) and in most regions (apart from the Mediterranean coast and the islands) most tourists are Spanish. I live in the north of Spain and in my region until very recently 90% of all tourists were Spaniards. It is now down to 85%.

 

[jrobasdan]

Perhaps the one thing that surprised me more than anything else when I started walking the CF in May is how little English is spoken in Northern Spain. Or more precisely, how seldom there is English signage, menus, etc., as compared to other countries.

And before some of you start haughtily replying that it's the visitors' obligation to learn Spanish, not the locals' obligation to cater to non-Spanish speakers, let me articulate my point a bit more.

I've travelled fairly extensively in my life, and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is. I've experienced this in many countries - pretty much any business that has had one or two foreigners stop by in the past will have some sort of paper with some English on it for future customers.

Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.

Again, before people start jumping down my throat, I'm not suggesting that the business owners/workers should be obliged to learn to speak English. But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes. Why, when 90% of your customers are speaking English (English being the default language when a group of koreans, germans, french, etc are gathered) would you, as a business owner, not translate your menu? It just seems like such an obvious thing to do from a business perspective.

The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English. Heck even in the big cathedrals of Burgos and Leon, all the signage is in Spanish only. I did see one sign translated into English - the one asking for donations .

So do you need to speak Spanish to walk a camino? No of course not. But if I knew then what I know now I would have spent some time learning all the relevant words for Spanish food and drink, as that would have made things much easier for me, and I wouldn't have had to resort to simply pointing at things under the glass when I went into a bar... Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus. At times I would take a photo of the menu, then go back to my albergue where I had wifi and use Google to translate the menu, then return to the restaurant to order. Ridiculous I know, but it is what it is, and I was wholly unprepared from a language perspective. Lesson learned. Ordering food, booking accommodation, and understanding numbers - if you can learn this amount of Spanish before your camino you'll be glad once you're there. As for myself, happily towards the end of my camino I had gotten much better, and could confidently order a handful of dishes. But I'll be doing a crash course before my next camino. I know I missed out on lots of delicious food opportunities simply because I didn't know how to order it.

I’ll leave the bars and restaurants with menus in four languages to monolinguals and eat where locals eat for better food and better prices. I hear Iowa also has pretty good ham.

 

[MariaSP]

I hope it's OK to share my blog. Each post has some Spanish words or phrases (with audio), which are relevant to the Camino.

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

Exactly this. The amount of English spoken on the Francés is imcomparable with the less walked Caminos.

I think there is a very logical explanation why a lot of Spaniards don't speak English (very well).

(Apologies if I've missed mention of this before.)

Another reason I've been told by Portuguese about why a higher proportion of them speak reasonable English than Spaniards (remember--Portuguese perspective--may or may not be true )...a lot of Portuguese apparently improve their spoken English by watching English-language movies/Netflix etc. which are subtitled in Portuguese, but typically not dubbed because the audience isn't large enough to warrant it. Contrast this with Spain--apparently, because of the very large audience throughout Latin America, most North American movies are dubbed into Spanish, so the viewers never hear the original English-language version. Thus the Portuguese get more listening practice than the Spanish, which helps a lot with their English conversation.

This surprised me, given the size of the Brazilian audience. I would have thought the movies would have been dubbed into Portuguese as well. But--apparently not--or perhaps the Brazilian Portuguese is different enough from continental Portuguese that the original English-language version is preferable?

In any case, that's the explanation I was given...

 

[MariaSP]

(Apologies if I've missed mention of this before.)

Another reason I've been told by Portuguese about why a higher proportion of them speak reasonable English than Spaniards (remember--Portuguese perspective--may or may not be true )...a lot of Portuguese apparently improve their spoken English by watching English-language movies/Netflix etc. which are subtitled in Portuguese, but typically not dubbed because the audience isn't large enough to warrant it. Contrast this with Spain--apparently, because of the very large audience throughout Latin America, most North American movies are dubbed into Spanish, so the viewers never hear the original English-language version. Thus the Portuguese get more listening practice than the Spanish, which helps a lot with their English conversation.

This surprised me, given the size of the Brazilian audience. I would have thought the movies would have been dubbed into Portuguese as well. But--apparently not--or perhaps the Brazilian Portuguese is different enough from continental Portuguese that the original English-language version is preferable?

In any case, that's the explanation I was given...

Partially true. The dubbing for Latin America and Spain is not the same. You will find the same movies dubbed into 'Latin American' Spanish (some sort of neutral Latin American sounding Spanish that isn't really spoken anywhere) and into Spanish from Spain.
Why movies are dubbed in Spain has to do with Franco. On the one hand, it helped promote Spanish as the national language and it also served another purpose: censorship. It allowed them to change any detail they didn't like in a movie. There are some very famous cases, like 'Casablanca' or 'Mogambo'.

In the case of Portuguese, the differences between Brazilian and European Portuguese are huge. I know Portuguese people who, in college, preferred to buy reference books in English rather than Portuguese because, they said the books were translated into Brazilian Portuguese and English was easier to understand for them.

 

[Pathfinder075]

My sister in law went to Spain with my brother and she said the way they speak it is completely different to in Peru. In Peru, as a language it flows, but in Spain not so much. Also a lot of the gutteral sounds and tricky spoken quirks have been removed in the South American version to make it easier to learn and use. They still understood her and she taught my brother to a pretty high level throughout Covid times (when he ended up trapped in Peru after his wedding).

I've tried to learn it a couple of times over the years, but for some reason i find it really hard. French was what i did at school and I am not fluent, but I can get by easily and survive quite comfortably in France with my school boy level (and the fact a lot of my online gaming friends are French). I did Duolingo for a while and yes you pick up words, but it isn't conversationally viable as a platform, it's more like learning a dictionary, but for me it didn't teach you how to string the words together into sentences. I'm still working on it. Maybe by 60 I will have learnt enough for some level of conversation.

 

[Dennis Pack]

I've always had a lot of respect and admiration for countries that refuse to push high levels of English usage ... kind of like rejecting modern colonialism ... or western exceptionalism. Plus, it adds so much more to an authentic experience.

 

[512]

Duolingo is pretty good, but it is limited. I probably won't ever need to say "I like the green dress better than the yellow dress", but I'll definitely need to say "I'd like to pay my taxes with a bank transfer."

Oh, and re: menus
If I don't know what it is, I order it; what's life without adventure?

 

[trecile]

I highly recommend the free Language Transfer course.

Spanish — Language Transfer

www.languagetransfer.org

 

[trecile]

I highly recommend the free Language Transfer course.

Spanish — Language Transfer

www.languagetransfer.org

Also available as an app

App — Language Transfer

www.languagetransfer.org

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I seemed to find plenty of English speaking business people on the Camino france. Maybe not anywhere near fluent, but usually enough to deal with tourists. I welcomed when English wasn’t an option, because it forced me to practice my rough Spanish.

and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is.

I think in Laos, where I have also been, they absolutely need English on their menus because pretty much no one can read or speak Laotian unless you live there or a nearby. Small Spanish restaurants possibly don’t feel compelled do it because they don’t really need it to get the business. If a traveler walks in, they figure it out.

Definitely a downloaded Spanish version of Google translate was my friend. Although often I couldn’t understand the menu translations anyway…

 

[JustJack]

I’ll leave the bars and restaurants with menus in four languages to monolinguals and eat where locals eat for better food and better prices. I hear Iowa also has pretty good ham.

I knew a comment like this would come eventually...

 

[JustJack]

Small Spanish restaurants possibly don’t feel compelled do it because they don’t really need it to get the business. If a traveler walks in, they figure it out.

Agreed, which is why I mentioned specifically that I was surprised to find this lack of an English menu in bars that primarily serve pilgrims. I wouldn't expect it in restaurants that primarily serve Spanish customers.

 

[Madamjoy]

It always puzzles me why pilgrims (and tourists) expect menus to be in languages other than the native (spoken) language. Where I live (an English speaking city with tourists from all over the world) menus are in English. I know that a fair amount of travellers speak some English (given the dominance of American tv, Meta, etc) but I don’t see tourists asking for menus in Japanese, Spanish or Italian. I guess the hospitality industry must expect that people will figure it out. Similarly on parts of Via de la Plata and Via Francigena I ate in restaurants where the menu was in Spanish or Italian, no English. Same happened on a visit to Egypt.. Arabic menus outside of the tourist cities. I personally like that businesses operate in their native language and that I have to dig a little deeper to converse with the camarero/camarera or hotel staff.

 

[Ruffy2791]

Each for their own but I compared Microsoft's Translate with Google's Translate. I downloaded the Microsoft version and get by very well. In fact it is fun most of the time. Time for some research, eh?

 

[WisTom]

I am in full agreement with Bradypus. It's hard to imagine not finding access to English on the Camino Francés. However, while walking the Mozárabe this past March, a bar owner with whom I was chatting said that he understood that 700-1000 pilgrims passed through his town each YEAR, a large percentage of them being Spanish. It is certainly understandable why Spanish is necessary on the "caminos menos transitados".
One other comment. Angel, the owner of El embrujo in Poladura on the C. Del San Salvador, told me that he would make every effort to communicate with his limited English vocabulary unless pilgrims would complain that his English wasn't good enough. At that point, he would go back to being a proud Spaniard and speak only Spanish.

 

[Bradypus]

However, while walking the Mozárabe this past March, a bar owner with whom I was chatting said that he understood that 700-1000 pilgrims passed through his town each YEAR, a large percentage of them being Spanish.

Having walked the Mozarabe from Malaga I'm slightly surprised that the numbers would be that large! Definitely a road less travelled

 

[pjacobi]

There are lots of people in Spain where Standard Spanish (Castilian) is a foreign language!

As with most of Europe, children start out speaking the local dialect. Then when they attend school, they must learn the standard national language - Spanish (Castilian)/French/German/Italian. At the same time, they may be learning English and another foreign language.

Often Europeans will not admit to speaking English until I start with my few words in Spanish/French/Italian/German. Then they suddenly remember that they *do* know some English! Perhaps they are just being humble and admitting that their English skills are not perfect, but they far exceed my foreign language skill.


-Paul

 

[nayitas]

As a native Spanish speaker, it would be appreciated if people who do not speak Spanish in their native language would make an effort to learn basic words or sentences in Spanish. I have seen many videos on YouTube of people doing the Camino de Santiago, most of them non-Spanish speaking, who make a real effort to speak it, and I am glad to see that they do what they can about the language. Bravo!

 

[pjacobi]

As a native Spanish speaker, it would be appreciated if people who do not speak Spanish in their native language would make an effort to learn basic words or sentences in Spanish.

The same goes for me in the US! If a Latin American person starts randomly speaking Spanish to me in a local store, I probably wound not answer and just walk away. If they make and attempt at a few English words, I would be more inclined to help them perhaps with a few words of Spanish.


-Paul

 

[jrobasdan]

The same goes for me in the US! If a Latin American person starts randomly speaking Spanish to me in a local store, I probably wound not answer and just walk away. If they make and attempt at a few English words, I would be more inclined to help them perhaps with a few words of Spanish.


-Paul

This has nothing to do with the US. No matter how you feel about immigrants, Spanish is the second most spoken language in the US and it’s only becoming more prevalent.

 

[trecile]

This has nothing to do with the US. No matter how you feel about immigrants, Spanish is the second most spoken language in the US and it’s only becoming more prevalent.

I don't think that he meant that he was speaking for everyone is the US, but just for himself, who happens to live in the US.

The same goes for me in the US!

 

[AllisonMarie]

Unfortunately, I don't speak Spanish but, like many, I guess I speak Camino Spanish, enough to be friendly, courteous and cover the essentials. I have a 2 pager I print out double sided and take with me when I visit or walk in Spain. I took this on my first Camino in 2011. I don't use it often these days, but I like having it folded up somewhere handy. I know it's old fashioned to print something but for this purpose - simple exchanges - I prefer to using my phone. I've attached it if it's of any use. I am not able to attach a Word file.

PS It's very possible I've made some mistakes - but nothing serious!

Thank you for sharing!

 

[512]

One other comment. Angel, the owner of El embrujo in Poladura on the C. Del San Salvador, told me that he would make every effort to communicate with his limited English vocabulary unless pilgrims would complain that his English wasn't good enough. At that point, he would go back to being a proud Spaniard and speak only Spanish.

Same happened to me in Paris. While I hacked my breakfast order apart with high school french, another American spoke loudly and slowly in English (you know, so them furriners could understand). I got served; he got a gallic shrug. Love it.

 

[WisTom]

Having walked the Mozarabe from Malaga I'm slightly surprised that the numbers would be that large! Definitely a road less travelled

Probably erroring on the high side. The chat was with a bar owner in Hinojosa del Duque, between Córdoba and Mérida. I saw almost no one on my walk, but thought that the lack of other pilgrim's could have been due to walking in mid-March.

 

[dougfitz]

I know we are largely an English language forum, and as such somewhat less likely to take the perspective of Korean, German or Italian speaking pilgrims, perhaps the other major languages that I hear when walking, and the languages that I regularly see where there are menus available in several languages.

Perhaps I have learnt enough Spanish and Portuguese so that, while I occasionally need to use Google Translate, I am pretty comfortable with simple essential daily tasks in these languages. It helps.

And the OP has made me wonder whether the practice of having menus in several languages is relatively common elsewhere. I know that it appears relatively common in places in Portugal and Spain where I have travelled recently, but I must admit I don't look for that when in another English speaking country. I suspect they might be available in major tourist destinations, but are they generally available elsewhere?

I recently spent a week in Rochester, Kent, and the Japanese restaurant that I ate in had the menu descriptions in both Japanese and English, but I didn't ask for the menu in another language. Would I find a similar pattern elsewhere? Or would there be menus available in a wider range of languages? As English language speakers (in the main) do we even look for this when visiting restaurants wherever we travel? I would be interested in whether it is common outside the major tourist centres in the US and Canada, countries which I haven't travelled to recently. Does anyone know?

 

[Anamya]

The above advice of learning at least some basic phrases is surely the best thing anyone can do. It's polite, it opens doors, it makes the entire difference for you and for the people you engage with.

I'm not a native English speaker, but I do speak 3 languages fluently and other 2 quite well. Translation and interpreting are part of my work duties, and reading the initial post, this was the part that got me:

But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes.

It costs nothing and only takes a few minutes if you don't mind spending money to print menus that sell "Angry Potatoes" (and these days, risk becoming a joke on the internet). If you really want your clientelle to understand how amazing your food can be, it requires a fair amount of work. (On a funny note, my husband is of East Asian heritage, and I always ask him to read menus for me, because the amount of "beef with vegetables and sauce" we find is astounding.)

But speaking as an interpreter: it's not hard speaking a foreign language if you are familiar with it. But it is EXTREMELY hard and mentally tiring to quickly change from one language to another in a short period of time. If you are getting order from tables, changing from Spanish (Castillian) to English, to Gallego, and back to English, is brain-frying.

So, be kind to your waiters, receptionists, hospitaleros, drivers. Try something in broken Spanish and give them that little time to sync with you. And kindness is usually replied with kindness, if words are missing.

 

[jrobasdan]

I know we are largely an English language forum, and as such somewhat less likely to take the perspective of Korean, German or Italian speaking pilgrims, perhaps the other major languages that I hear when walking, and the languages that I regularly see where there are menus available in several languages.

Perhaps I have learnt enough Spanish and Portuguese so that, while I occasionally need to use Google Translate, I am pretty comfortable with simple essential daily tasks in these languages. It helps.

And the OP has made me wonder whether the practice of having menus in several languages is relatively common elsewhere. I know that it appears relatively common in places in Portugal and Spain where I have travelled recently, but I must admit I don't look for that when in another English speaking country. I suspect they might be available in major tourist destinations, but are they generally available elsewhere?

I recently spent a week in Rochester, Kent, and the Japanese restaurant that I ate in had the menu descriptions in both Japanese and English, but I didn't ask for the menu in another language. Would I find a similar pattern elsewhere? Or would there be menus available in a wider range of languages? As English language speakers (in the main) do we even look for this when visiting restaurants wherever we travel? I would be interested in whether it is common outside the major tourist centres in the US and Canada, countries which I haven't travelled to recently. Does anyone know?

Their travel experience example was Laos, the site of a U.S. proxy war. Much like Central America, there’s historical reasons why South East Asia speaks English as a lingua franca for foreigners.

In Spain, common second languages were Phoenician, Greek, Latin, Arabic, Mozarabic, Mediterranean Lingua Franca, Castilian, and now English. But there’s a difference between administrative languages, indigenous languages, and common foreign languages, and a good rule for traveling is to not have to rely on locals speaking any language besides their own.

Anglophone countries / former anglophone colonies include the UK, Ireland, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, the Indian subcontinent, much of SE Asia, China, Japan, S Korea, Central America, much of Southern and Eastern Africa, Malta, Gibraltar, AUS/NZ/much of Oceania, and North America among others. Seems like a lot, but it’s still not everywhere, and in many of these places you might not find an English menu outside of the tourist track.

 

[dougfitz]

Seems like a lot, but it’s still not everywhere, and in many of these places you might not find an English menu outside of the tourist track.

Thank you for that, but it doesn't go to the point of my question, which is about the availability of menus as a particular example, in languages other than English outside of the major tourist areas in English speaking countries. I may not have made that clear.

I very much doubt one would find this in my own country, other than the example I used of the Japanese restaurant presenting its menu in both Japanese and English. Certainly, I don't see it in any of the places that I regularly visit in Australia and southern England. But I haven't visited Canada nor the USA for some time, and I was wondering if it was much the same there.

 

[Richard Smith]

I know a small amount of beginner Spanish, good enough to often be able to read the signs but not enough to follow fast Spanish. I found my slow Spanish and sign language usually worked out fine.
But one thing I learned in Italy, that proved true in France and Spain, is that many people have a basic grasp of English but can be embarrassed at their proficiency and prefer to use their native language, unless your version of Italian is so bad they have no shame replying in English.
I can proudly say that my Italian is good/bad enough that every time I asked a question in Italy they understood me but answered in English....
Surprisingly this (asking in excruciating Italian) also worked in France and Spain, I was often answered in English!

 

[VNwalking]

be kind to your waiters, receptionists, hospitaleros, drivers. Try something in broken Spanish and give them that little time to sync with you. And kindness is usually replied with kindness, if words are missing.

This. Beautifully said, @Anamya .

 

[jrobasdan]

Thank you for that, but it doesn't go to the point of my question, which is about the availability of menus as a particular example, in languages other than English outside of the major tourist areas in English speaking countries. I may not have made that clear.

I very much doubt one would find this in my own country, other than the example I used of the Japanese restaurant presenting its menu in both Japanese and English. Certainly, I don't see it in any of the places that I regularly visit in Australia and southern England. But I haven't visited Canada nor the USA for some time, and I was wondering if it was much the same there.

Besides Canada I’m not aware of any anglophone countries that have specific language requirements, so most commonly I’ve seen menus in French or Italian to sound fancier, in Spanish in the US, or in various languages of ethnic enclaves like Chinese or Serbian etc. To sum it up, I’ve noticed menus partially printed in prestige languages to be understood as flavored English (with varying degrees of success), compulsory French in Canada, Spanish in the US because Mexican Spanish food terminology is widely understood, and minority languages for immigrants in their specific neighborhoods.

The Spain equivalent would be 1: Basque/Gallego/Catalan to be understood like Spanish, 2: French/German/Korean/English/etc to be more accessible to foreign business, and 3: whichever minority languages in ethnic enclaves, with anglophone countries in my experience in contrast omitting the second category.

 

[Marbe2]

First, Thank you for your post! This is not such an unusual occurrence on the camino.

“ The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English.” (Just Jack)

What I am surprised about is that someone who is as well traveled as you , is surprised by the lack of English spoken in certain areas/ places on the Camino., Not only in Spain but in other EU countries (Italy, for another) have I been in very small towns, particularly in tiny villages, south of Rome, where we were unable to communicate in English. Yes, English, is a recognized Lingua Franca, but there are lots of folks out there, who don’t speak English and some won’t have menus and directions ready and waiting for you! Are we prepared to deal with it, if it happens? Language prep? Translating device? Wandering around hoping to find someone who can help?..Maybe? It is our responsibility.

This map is clearly outdated, so if you have something more recent please post.

 

[Marc S.]

This map is clearly outdated, so if you have something more recent please post.

These are the figures for 2023 I think.

Spain, France and Italy (some countries that have been mentioned in this thread) are not exacty on the top of the list. (nr 26, 27 and 28)

In general (and not as reaction to your post) I notice that people sometimes refer to 'Europeans', which sometimes does not make much sense as I think on certain aspects there are can be big differences between European countries. I think the link at least makes clear that the level of English being spoken is very different across Europe.

Wordspath

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I know a small amount of beginner Spanish, good enough to often be able to read the signs but not enough to follow fast Spanish. I found my slow Spanish and sign language usually worked out fine.
But one thing I learned in Italy, that proved true in France and Spain, is that many people have a basic grasp of English but can be embarrassed at their proficiency and prefer to use their native language, unless your version of Italian is so bad they have no shame replying in English.
I can proudly say that my Italian is good/bad enough that every time I asked a question in Italy they understood me but answered in English....
Surprisingly this (asking in excruciating Italian) also worked in France and Spain, I was often answered in English!

Maybe that’s why I have no problem finding people who speak some English. I usually try my horrible Spanish first , or sometimes I’ll just ask if I can speak English: Puedo hablar ingles? Often I’ll get back basic English. 20 or 30 words in a foreign language can make the difference.

And really, if you can learn the words for “hello”,” thank you“,l would like….”, and “may I speak english”?, Just those few words, and your experience will be much better. I find asking people if I may speak English is much more polite than asking them if they speak English.

With dreams of one day being able to have a real conversation, I spend at least a little time studying Spanish every day.

 

[512]

Maybe that’s why I have no problem finding people who speak some English. I usually try my horrible Spanish first , or sometimes I’ll just ask if I can speak English: Puedo hablar ingles? Often I’ll get back basic English. 20 or 30 words in a foreign language can make the difference.

And really, if you can learn the words for “hello”,” thank you“,l would like….”, and “may I speak english”?, Just those few words, and your experience will be much better. I find asking people if I may speak English is much more polite than asking them if they speak English.

With dreams of one day being able to have a real conversation, I spend at least a little time studying Spanish every day.

And the same phrases in Basque will start your Camino del Norte on the right foot.

 

[alexwalker]

On Caminos like the CF you will survive fine with English, most of the time. However Spanish is more important in the world than English as the first language (no.2 after Chinese,, and English no. 3).

Top 10 Most Spoken FIRST Languages in the World in 2023 | TranslateDay

Mandarin Chinese, English, Hindi... Over the 7000 languages in the world these are the most spoken ones. ✅ 2023 Updated Edition

www.translateday.com

In rural areas, It requires some Spanish knowledge. Many villages that you pass will have many old citicens that only speak Spanish. I am glad I can do that. It is also rewarding to commend some Spanish in politeness and respect, IMHO. it has helped me a lot, as well as coming closer to the locals and making friends.

 

[JustJack]

What I am surprised about is that someone who is as well traveled as you , is surprised by the lack of English spoken in certain areas/ places on the Camino.,

I was referring to written menus in bars/restaurants, not spoken English.

 

[Howzer48]

On Caminos like the CF you will survive fine with English, most of the time. However Spanish is more important in the world than English as the first language (no.2 after Chinese,, and English no. 3).

Top 10 Most Spoken FIRST Languages in the World in 2023 | TranslateDay

Mandarin Chinese, English, Hindi... Over the 7000 languages in the world these are the most spoken ones. ✅ 2023 Updated Edition

www.translateday.com

In rural areas, It requires some Spanish knowledge. Many villages that you pass will have many old citicens that only speak Spanish. I am glad I can do that. It is also rewarding to commend some Spanish in politeness and respect, IMHO. it has helped me a lot, as well as coming closer to the locals and making friends.

I just completed part of the Del Norte from Irun to Bilbao. High school Spanish was adequate to get by, however greetings to farmers and locals along the route were met with grunts or replies that could only have been in the Basque language. Next time I'll be sure to learn a bunch of Basque pleasantries to help lighten the day.

 

[David61]

My ability to read and speak Spanish has one major problem. The Spanish, God bless them speak Spanish! At approximately 100 times the speed I can even possibly conceive understanding

 

[512]

I just completed part of the Del Norte from Irun to Bilbao. High school Spanish was adequate to get by, however greetings to farmers and locals along the route were met with grunts or replies that could only have been in the Basque language. Next time I'll be sure to learn a bunch of Basque pleasantries to help lighten the day.

I sometimes got a very pointed "egun on" reply to my " buen dia"

 

[512]

My ability to read and speak Spanish has one major problem. The Spanish, God bless them speak Spanish! At approximately 100 times the speed I can even possibly conceive understanding

Try an automated phone call...

 

[Debora]

This should get you everything you need:
Un café con leche por favor
And
Hay un baño disponible?
In that order!!

 

[WGroleau]

Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.

?? I recall many menus with English on them along the Camino Francés. An amusing one in los Arcos had a list of sandwiches increasing in number of ingredients, each with different name. Ham, cheese, bacon, etc. The last one on the list added lettuce, and was called “vegetarian"

 

[Kirkie]

Perhaps the one thing that surprised me more than anything else when I started walking the CF in May is how little English is spoken in Northern Spain. Or more precisely, how seldom there is English signage, menus, etc., as compared to other countries.

And before some of you start haughtily replying that it's the visitors' obligation to learn Spanish, not the locals' obligation to cater to non-Spanish speakers, let me articulate my point a bit more.

I've travelled fairly extensively in my life, and when traveling I could find myself at some remote village in Laos, and chances are they will have some version of an English menu at the local restaurant. Not proper English mind you, but enough to get a sense of what the food is. I've experienced this in many countries - pretty much any business that has had one or two foreigners stop by in the past will have some sort of paper with some English on it for future customers.

Not so in northern Spain. I was surprised that when I'd go to a bar in some small village, that caters almost exclusively to pilgrims, and those pilgrims are predominantly non-Spanish speaking, there would very seldom be an English version of the menu.

Again, before people start jumping down my throat, I'm not suggesting that the business owners/workers should be obliged to learn to speak English. But translating a menu costs nothing and takes a few minutes. Why, when 90% of your customers are speaking English (English being the default language when a group of koreans, germans, french, etc are gathered) would you, as a business owner, not translate your menu? It just seems like such an obvious thing to do from a business perspective.

The lack of English in bars and restaurants isn't a big deal, it's just something that I find odd/interesting. I've worked in travel and tourism my whole life, and honestly can't recall another place I've been where there was such a complete lack of English. Heck even in the big cathedrals of Burgos and Leon, all the signage is in Spanish only. I did see one sign translated into English - the one asking for donations .

So do you need to speak Spanish to walk a camino? No of course not. But if I knew then what I know now I would have spent some time learning all the relevant words for Spanish food and drink, as that would have made things much easier for me, and I wouldn't have had to resort to simply pointing at things under the glass when I went into a bar... Of course my situation was complicated by the fact that I was walking without a data plan, so I couldn't always use Google Translate when reading the menus. At times I would take a photo of the menu, then go back to my albergue where I had wifi and use Google to translate the menu, then return to the restaurant to order. Ridiculous I know, but it is what it is, and I was wholly unprepared from a language perspective. Lesson learned. Ordering food, booking accommodation, and understanding numbers - if you can learn this amount of Spanish before your camino you'll be glad once you're there. As for myself, happily towards the end of my camino I had gotten much better, and could confidently order a handful of dishes. But I'll be doing a crash course before my next camino. I know I missed out on lots of delicious food opportunities simply because I didn't know how to order it.

Well, given all your experience, aren't you just the one to offer a service to all those places that didn't have translations handy for you?
The previous sentence is altogether tongue in cheek. It is not meant to shut you up. Whether or not you believe me. You decide.
I often cringe when I see terrible translations, but hey! Lighten up! You have a smart phone to get translations! You can also crane your neck to see what others - preferably locals - have on their plates. I am even tempted to say something I often read on this forum but will not risk it (whisper: tourists demand, pilgrims are thankful )
I am glad to note that by the end of your post you have taken a smart decision, to do your homework before your next camino. Enjoy. By the way, in Leon, skip the morcilla. Anyone who disagrees, I cede to your opinion/experience. In my case, a very unwise choice. It cost me a taxi run on the Salvador one day...
ps. I have not read any replies, just your post, so sorry if I am repeating the obvious.

 

[dick bird]

I often cringe when I see terrible translations,

Roasted mountain dweller
Albanian´s liver
Jumping back
Love of man
Nun´s breasts
Long men

What would be the fun in travelling if all the translations were correct? And as for what visitors think of ´toad in the hole´, not to mention ´Lady´s fingers´ I shudder to think.

 

[Bradypus]

And as for what visitors think of ´toad in the hole´, not to mention ´Lady´s fingers´ I shudder to think.

Or Spotted Dick for that matter...

 

[Kirkie]

I sometimes got a very pointed "egun on" reply to my " buen dia"

You were in the basque country...

 

[512]

?? I recall many menus with English on them along the Camino Francés. An amusing one in los Arcos had a list of sandwiches increasing in number of ingredients, each with different name. Ham, cheese, bacon, etc. The last one on the list added lettuce, and was called “vegetarian"

Ala spam, spam, spam, bacon, cheese, and spam? I want to go there!

 

[512]

You were in the basque country...

Yep. The older people, especially, are quite proud of their language, I found. Eskerik asko (thank you) and komunak (bathroom) are some good words to know.

 

[jrobasdan]

What? Most Spanish would disagree and say SA Spanish is—as you say—“more gutteral.” Offensive to say the least. ESPECIALLY since you’re parlaying such based on ignorance and hearsay.

What do you think guttural means? Do you know the general differences between Latin American and Castilian phonologies?

 

[NebraskaKate]

Ala spam, spam, spam, bacon, cheese, and spam? I want to go there!

Don't get me started on being a vegetarian on the Camino-ha ha - It is rough!!

 

[NebraskaKate]

My Spanish phrases are poor despite my best effort and I think most people appreciated that I tried- I learned the key phrases and even then had some difficulty, but always found a friend willing to help me out and in the hardest of times used google translate, but that was rare. It was fun having locals teach me. I was always amazed and impressed with the number of people who will speak English as a second language from other countries (example German and Italian will speak English to each other ) as it is their common language, so I was usually able to participate. Once, a priest did not speak English, so he offered me a confession and blessing over google translate- it is a fun memory!

 

[dick bird]

What do you think guttural means? Do you know the general differences between Latin American and Castilian phonologies?

Possibly he does. There are differences in pronunciation between Spanish Castilian and other versions: even within Spain there pronounced differences between regions, and the difference between, for example Argentinian and Chilean Castilian is quite extreme. But the same could be said of any language, English in particular.

When he says ´guttural´, he may be referring to the pronunciation of the letter ´j´, or ´jota´ which in Spain is usually pronounced like the ´ch´ in Scots ´loch´ whereas in South America, and certainly in Perú, it sounds more like the English ´h´ as in ´hat´.

 

[Friend from Barquinha]

My ability to read and speak Spanish has one major problem. The Spanish, God bless them speak Spanish! At approximately 100 times the speed I can even possibly conceive understanding

Sounds like my progress in Portuguese

 

[jrobasdan]

Possibly he does. There are differences in pronunciation between Spanish Castilian and other versions: even within Spain there pronounced differences between regions and the difference between, for example Argentinian and Chilean Castillian is quite extreme. But the same could be said of any language, English in particular.

Yes dialects can all be different, but guttural means throaty from Latin. And Castilian Spanish famously pronounces j/x/ge/gi as a voiceless velar fricative, which is one phonological indication of several of the only accurately described characteristic (back of the oral cavity) of a guttural language.

 

[dick bird]

Or Spotted Dick for that matter...

For a number of what should be obvious reasons, I refrained from mentioning that.

 

[dick bird]

Yes dialects can all be different, but guttural means throaty from Latin. And Castilian Spanish famously pronounces j/x/ge/gi as a voiceless velar fricative, which is one phonological indication of several of the only accurately described characteristic (back of the oral cavity) of a guttural language.

As far as I know, Spanish only has one guttural sound: jota. But someone who wasn´t used to hearing Spanish people speaking Castilian would probably notice it and think the accent was guttural, which it isn´t. Another remark people make, especially other Castilian speakers, is that the Spanish lisp. They don´t, they just says words like cena with a voiceless labio-dental fricative, i.e. they poke their tongues out when they say ´z´ or ´ce´ etc like most of us English speakers do when we say ´think´ or ´bath´. The truly bizarre thing is the number of English speakers who cannot get their head around how to say ´cerveza´. But such is life.

 

[Flog]

The truly bizarre thing is the number of English speakers who cannot get their head around how to say ´cerveza´. But such is life.

Sii, es verdad!! Y es una palabra muy importante en español tambien..

 

[jrobasdan]

As far as I know, Spanish only has one guttural sound: jota. But someone who wasn´t used to hearing Spanish people speaking Castilian would probably notice it and think the accent was guttural, which it isn´t.

J, or jota, is a letter, ie a grapheme / a symbol in an alphabet. A letter in itself is not a sound. Letters can represent sounds or phones, but different letters can represent functionally equivalent phones (the same sounds) ie phonemes, as the same letter can represent different phonemes depending on such rules as its position in a word (eg g+a/o/u vs. g+e/i in many Latin languages or s+e/i vs. s+ o/u/a in the Irish name Saoirse pronounced with a broad S followed by a slender S).

I wrote what letters/letter combinations are associated with guttural sounds in Spanish (I left out intervocalic g /ɣ/), and what guttural means from a linguistics standpoint.

The important takeaway that seems to be eluding everyone is that having guttural sounds makes a language accurately described as a guttural language. Explicitly this means that Castilian Spanish, for the most part, like German or Arabic or Farsi or French, is indeed a guttural language.

This isn’t one of those agree to disagree situations—linguistics or phonetics or whichever discipline we could attribute this discussion to is a science, whether or not we misunderstand scientific terms in an unscientific pejorative context.

 

[dick bird]

Explicitly this means that Castilian Spanish, for the most part, like German or Arabic or Farsi or French, is indeed a guttural language.

OK, I´ll go with that. I don´t think anyone is trying to prove anything here. So when Pathfinder asserted that the form of Castilian spoken in Spain (Spanish Castilian) was a guttural language, he was right because a guttural language, according to the definition you have given here, is any language that has at least one guttural sound in it. Can we end this now? Because it isn´t going anywhere.

 

[Flog]

in the Irish name Saoirse pronounced with a broad S followed by a slender S).

I dont know what a slender 'S' is, but the second S in the name Saoirse is pronounced 'sh' as in See-er-sheh

 

[dick bird]

I dont know what a slender 'S' is, but the second S in the name Saoirse is pronounced 'sh' as in See-er-sheh

This is the problem with linguistics, how do you represent sounds in visual form, e.g. writing. One way to do this (and it is what language teachers and linguistic academics do) is to use the IPA. Not India Pale Ale, the International Phonetic Alphabet which has a symbol for every sound in every language, so far. Which is lovely for teachers of languages and professors of linguistics but not much use for the normal run of humanity because a) these symbols are a pain in the butt to introduce into normal text and b) the normal run of humanity has no idea of what these symbols represent. So us language teachers and linguistic professors (I belong to the former category) have to have recourse to descriptive language, such as ´soft s´ etc. As jrobasdon points out, there is no exact, perfect relationship between sounds and letters in the alphabet. RP English (aka posh British) or Southern British Standard (my accent, middle class English) use around 44 sounds represented by an alphabet with´26 letters (and let´s not get started on right, write, rite). The so-called Roman alphabet just about works for Spanish Castilian, i.e. you know from the spelling how to say a word, but in Latin America you have problems with samba/zamba, coser/cozer not to mention the way Argentinians and Uruguayans pronounce words with ll in them - when I went to fill up a car in Patagonia I was asked what sounded like ´sheno´?

Anyway, I really have to thank you for explaining how to pronounce ´Saoirse´. Thank you.

 

[jrobasdan]

I dont know what a slender 'S' is, but the second S in the name Saoirse is pronounced 'sh' as in See-er-sheh

“The “S” letter is pronounced in two major ways in the Irish language: Broad S which sounds like “ssss” in English. Slender S which sounds like “shhh” in English.“ (https://www.bitesize.irish/blog/pronounce-s/)

Essentially an S is slender or broad depending on if it has a/o/u’s or e/i’s around it. There’s two S’s in that name, so it’s a good example of both.

Another slender S is in Siobhan or uisce beatha, which gives us whiskey. An example of a broad S is in slainte. Superfluous vowels are used to surround the consonants on both sides, in contrast to English where only the subsequent vowel can affect the consonant’s pronunciation.

 

[Flog]

Another slender S is in Siobhan or uisce beatha, which gives us whiskey. An example of a broad S is in slainte.

Siobhán and sláinte are actually spelt with a 'fada' over the A, which changes the sound of that vowel.

 

[David61]

Siobhán and sláinte are actually spelt with a 'fada' over the A, which changes the sound of that vowel.

On TV today a presenter said that Siobhán is now being routinely pronounced See-o-ban as the youth cannot pronounce it!

 

[Flog]

I'm not sure which 'youth' you're referring to, but I don't think Irish people young or old have any problem pronouncing Irish words. The british on the other hand, or at least the british establishment, are somehow gifted with an immense capacity to mangle Irish names..

But to the original question:

Yes, out of respect and politeness if nothing else, it's a good idea to learn a few basic phrases in Spanish if you plan to spend any time there, particularly in rural areas. A little goes a long way...

 

[David61]

I'm not sure which 'youth' you're referring to, but I don't think Irish people young or old have any problem pronouncing Irish words. The british on the other hand, or at least the british establishment, are somehow gifted with an immense capacity to mangle Irish names..

But to the original question:

Yes, out of respect and politeness if nothing else, it's a good idea to learn a few basic phrases in Spanish if you plan to spend any time there, particularly in rural areas. A little goes a long way...

Never said Irish people. The name is popular in England

 

[David61]

Never said Irish people. The name is popular in England

BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?

 

[Kirkie]

BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?

Black?

 

[dick bird]

I think the answer to the OP’s question is ‘yes’.

 

[jrobasdan]

Siobhán and sláinte are actually spelt with a 'fada' over the A, which changes the sound of that vowel.

Talking about S, not A.

 

[jrobasdan]

BTW, I am first generation English and my grandfather was Irish and left the old country in the aftermath of the Famine. My historic surname is Dubhslain, guess what it is now?

Probably Doolin. Everything looks worse anglicized.

 

[David61]

Probably Doolin. Everything looks worse anglicized.

Very good! That is one version of it. Doolin, Doolan, Dolan