Christine Maske
New Member
- Time of past OR future Camino
- (April-May 2018) Madrid, Sarria, Finisterre!
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Interesting perspective, thank you!I have walked a number of caminos in Spain and long-distance routes elsewhere. Because I value solitude very highly when I walk and enjoy the freedom to change my plans at will I would never dream of joining a guided tour. Walking the Spanish Caminos - and most especially the Camino Frances - is such a straightforward business that I cannot see what benefit there is to to justify the extra cost and the restrictions which a pre-arranged guided tour would entail. Unless a person is a very inexperienced and anxious traveller there seems little to gain.
Yes, it looks like there is a lot of in between as well. Some just assist with lodging, others are there for your EVERY step of the way. I guess it circles back to whatever an individual's purpose is, but I would not want to sacrifice being able to go at my own pace and being able to explore.This is becoming a hot topic on forum. I was 39 on my first camino and 52 on my last. All were done without tours. I just do not understand the guided tour aspect of pilgrimage. If you have a guide and lodging and transport... Pilgrimage? However, if you need those things then do so.
Buen camino.
I've travelled extensively in Europe, both as an independent pilgrim and as member of a tour group.... if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)?...
Thanks for the thoughtful response!I've travelled extensively in Europe, both as an independent pilgrim and as member of a tour group.
When one is in a tour group, you don't have control of your schedule or your itinerary, your travel companions, your meal times or (often) places. When things go sideways, you have the tour director to help, or blame, or both. There is a real tendency to transfer responsibility for the travel experience from the individual to the tour director. One tends to not do as much research beforehand, or bother to learn the language. And one generally gets help with handling luggage, so it tends to be bigger.
When one travels independently, you have greater (but not complete) control over schedule, itinerary, meal times/places/menu. You can elect to associate with travel companions, or not, on this day or that week. When things go sideways, you learn about being vulnerable and not in control, and how to request and receive assistance from others. You are responsible for your own travel experience - there is no one else to blame. So one does the research, and learns some of the language. And since you are carrying your own bags, you pack more lightly.
These are entirely different modes of travel; and both are legitimate. It depends on what fits you.
and learns some of the language.
Yes, it looks like there is a lot of in between as well. Some just assist with lodging, others are there for your EVERY step of the way. I guess it circles back to whatever an individual's purpose is, but I would not want to sacrifice being able to go at my own pace and being able to explore.
Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
This made me giggleI can understand why on ones first Camino you might want to have a guide. It does mean that you have less anxiety, however after a few days I found that my pre departure anxiety was unfounded and somewhat regretted not just going solo from the start. Going solo on the Camino is a bit of a bad description as if you are anyway sociable you will meet many fellow pilgrims.
Don't worry about the language. I'm particularly bad at languages and only know two essential words vino tinto which is said like bino Tonto. And thank you gracias which is said like grass e ass with a smile....
If languages are easy for you it would make life a lot easier but not having it is not an issue either
Thank you, domigee!!I agree with all the above. Wouldn't dream of joining a guided tour as I like/need to make my own decisions/choices... Where I stay, when I stop.... But that's just me of course, everyone is different.
I don't even walk well with my husband - even though we do get on very well in 'normal' life, phew!
Do whatever seems right for you
Hi Christine , no guided tour for me . It’s my personal choice to do so ,Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
I don't even walk well with my husband - even though we do get on very well in 'normal' life, phew!
Thank you so much, Peter!Hi Christine , no guided tour for me . It’s my personal choice to do so ,
stop when you want , visit places and you can walk with pilgrims from all over the world . And when you want to walk on your one you can do .
At the end you will make a decission that is best for you .
Wish you a wonderfull time and a Buen Camino , Peter .
I can relate......So looking forward to 800 kms with my dearly beloved next year...........
It will be 'character building'
I reckon walking a Camino with a spouse must be on a par with teaching them to drive......
Not for the faint hearted
Thank you, St. Mike!!Hola Christine - I am a two-time pilgrim, once on a bike, last May/June as a walker, so I am in the independent type.
My question to you is "what type of Camino Experience are you looking for?" If its just an organised holiday then opt for the guided camino experience; but if you are seeking a "true pilgrimage" (such as can be experienced in the 21st C) then I respectfully suggest that a solo self-guided camino is the way to go. Buen Camino
Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
Thanks! Actually, I have traveled quite extensively internationally for work. Certainly no concerns thereSince you have registered today, I suspect you have a lot of questions but there are many people in here; veterans; and in addition, use the search function exstensively: I believe all possible questions have already been answered before; You will learn a lot! You still have good time to read up before you go. But by all means: Fire your questions if you're missing some info!
As you can tell from my history (left side recordings of my Caminos) I am a veteran. But only in the context of numbers of Caminos; maybe after your first you'll know more than me!...
Since you are a newbie, I will nevertheless try to provide you with some basics. First of all, order a guide as soon as possible and read up. Personally (I take it that you want to walk from Sarria to SdC based on your personal info) I use this guide: It is light and inexpensive: https://www.csj.org.uk/product/camino-de-santiago-pilgrim-guides-camino-frances-2017/
You can also easily produce a climb plan: Where it is steep and where it is straight: Select your start and ending points, and print it (maybe laminate it, as I do): http://www.godesalco.com/plan/frances . You will see that it contains info about overnight stays etc., as well as the guide I linked to does. All you need to walk across Spain.
It contains all you need, really.
Going with an operator: Don't, IMHO. I can understand that you, coming from the US, feel far away from home. But so am I, when I go to Spain. As you can see from my profile, I have walked many Caminos. But when I undertook my 1st, I was like you. However, after studying the forum and asking questions here, I was able to set up a plan, and it worked. There are many factors that can influence your adventure, and going with an operator may limit you:
And so on.
- You may want to change your plans
- You may need a rest day
- You get blisters and need to rest a day or two
- You may meet people you want to walk with
- Your group may not be where you want to be
- Distances may be different from your capabilities/wants
If you go alone, you are free. Free to stop wherever, join people you'd like to be with, not being restrained to a specific group. Believe me, the sense of freedom is exceptional.
If you can, do not order a return ticket. You are setting out on an adventure. If however possible, set your return when you're ready. Two times I have had a return ticket; both times I have had to cancel and buy a new one. Many things can happen on the Camino.
All said in the spirit of helping you to understand that you are embarking on an adventure where you should have control.
At the end: Learn some Spanish phrases for hello, where is..., directions, and a little more. It will be very helpful to you.
Finally, I should tell you that at the beginning of my first Camino, I was so thankful, lying in my bed in the albergue in Pamplona, that the forum had provided me with all the information i needed to get there, and I knew that the next day, all I had to do was to get up and get going. It was never a problem: easy going without an organized company, and 50-fold cheaper
Finally, for the Camino: The best plan is to not have a plan... Let whatever happens guide you.Be free.
PS: Sorry for the lenghty post. DS.
Buen Camino!
I do, however, have a limited time period so it' a strong consideration to have everything taken care of.
Best explanation I've seen yet, to explain why an organized group is not necessary for most people!On day 1 you set out and find there are 300 other people following the same route. Exact same route. EXACT. Catching the same buses, trains, planes, in fact at every turn there are big signs saying 'this way'......
I don't understand this reason. What takes the time on the Camino is the walking, not the "arrangements" on the ground! Which route, how much time and what month are you thinking about?I do, however, have a limited time period so it' a strong consideration to have everything taken care of.
Thanks! Actually, I have traveled quite extensively internationally for work. Certainly no concerns thereI do, however, have a limited time period so it' a strong consideration to have everything taken care of. Again, it seems everyone has their personal reasons for their respective journey. Interesting to see both sides to take into consideration!
Remember, you are not alone either in planning your Camino or walking your Camino... unless that is what you wish to do.
Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
I don't see how a guided tour helps someone with a time restraint at all.Definitely not guided unless elderly or time restraint.
The experience varies a lot, from the Pyrenees to the Meseta to Galicia, it’s fantastic.
Strange bu I hope it doesn’t become too touristy.
Now I will dismount from my high horse.
(or something in between)?
I'm comfortable with what I'm planning and still believe I'm on a pilgrimage.
Another helpful comment from you, Kitsambler, as always! I've done both modes of travel, too, and you have described the style of each so perfectly.I've travelled extensively in Europe, both as an independent pilgrim and as member of a tour group.
When one is in a tour group, you don't have control of your schedule or your itinerary, your travel companions, your meal times or (often) places. When things go sideways, you have the tour director to help, or blame, or both. There is a real tendency to transfer responsibility for the travel experience from the individual to the tour director. One tends to not do as much research beforehand, or bother to learn the language. And one generally gets help with handling luggage, so it tends to be bigger.
When one travels independently, you have greater (but not complete) control over schedule, itinerary, meal times/places/menu. You can elect to associate with travel companions, or not, on this day or that week. When things go sideways, you learn about being vulnerable and not in control, and how to request and receive assistance from others. You are responsible for your own travel experience - there is no one else to blame. So one does the research, and learns some of the language. And since you are carrying your own bags, you pack more These are entirely different modes of travel; and both are legitimate. It depends on what fits you.
exactly ! that's why I do not even want to be "guided" by someone else's systemwhile others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
Hi Robo, Lots of great points you've made. I'm a little off topic here, but I'd like to add this point....My husband and I sometimes have different ideas regarding travel, noticed more as we age and unfortunately have become somewhat more "unequally yoked" in this area. He is not nearly as enamored with overseas travel as I have been, but he's been willing to accompany me on a few European bus tours and various cruises, as they are easier to arrange. Would I have seen many of these amazing places without organized tours? Probably not, so for me they have had a positive impact on my life totally unrelated to the Caminos I've walked with our sons. Next up will be the Le Puy route with two Camino friends come June.I have done group tours on 'holidays' a couple of times. At the time they were a good choice for us. It allowed us to see a lot of places in a small amount of time without the need to be booking accommodation, transport, wondering where to go etc. And of course having a knowledgeable guide was a great benefit. No need to worry about language...All good stuff when doing the sights of Paris and so on.
I can understand how someone on their first Camino might think that going on some kind on group tour would offer similar benefits. Think again......
There is a huge difference between walking a Camino (particularly the Frances) and doing a traditional holiday tour......
You really can't get lost. You just follow the arrows and all the other Pilgrims.
You are part of a Group anyway, by default. Unless you walk in winter, you are part of a mobile community moving down the trail together. Why would you pay, just to be part of a fixed group, within that community, whose members you are stuck with even if you don't enjoy their company...
The locals have been dealing with and helping Pilgrims for a thousand years. For many we are their livelihood. They will guide you and support you... Language? Learn a couple of dozen basic words just as a courtesy......It's not essential though.
You will make new friends every day. It's kind of impossible not to! And you will stick with others whose company you enjoy. Everyone helps each other out.
You are not alone.............kind of ever! You have to try hard to get alone time sometimes........
Imagine doing a 4 week tour of Europe. The itinerary is already planned out. Eiffel Tower, followed by the Louvre, then on to Munich or wherever. You're going to see all the major sites. On day 1 you set out and find there are 300 other people following the same route. Exact same route. EXACT. Catching the same buses, trains, planes, in fact at every turn there are big signs saying 'this way'......
Everyone around you is going the same way. Exactly the same way! Following the signs. The only decision you need to make, is when to stop each day, and secure a bed in whatever town or village, you find yourself. And you'll look around for that bed, with others who have also decided to stop in the same place....
And where ever you decide to stay, there are more travelling companions staying there. In fact all the people staying there are all going the same way as you. So you can join them for dinner......you'll know some of the faces from seeing them that day anyway.
Getting the idea
To go on a group tour would be a totally pointless exercise, a waste of money, and actually very limiting.....
Unless....... Due to some kind of physical limitation or maybe a total lack of self confidence, you need the security of a guide.... But even then..........go with a friend if you have to
If you can manage to get yourself to a bus stop, and go across town to visit a new shopping mall......you are fully equipped to find your way along the Camino. Same degree of difficulty I reckon...... On reflection, the Camino is easier.
Except the walking bit.....and the sore feet ......
P.S. One of the greatest joys of walking a Camino is the sense of Freedom.
Allow yourself to experience that ........
To not do so IMHO is to miss a core part of the Camino experience.
Check out these very short video clips.
On my own, but never really........ 2nd one down the page. Called Isolation.
Day 2 heading down to Roncesvalles.
http://robscamino.com/29th-of-april/
One of the many chance encounters.....
2nd one down. US Pilgrims. Near Torres Del Rio
http://robscamino.com/4th-of-may-on-the-road-to-estella-from-uterga-to-estella/
You don't need to Dine alone....... Look out for Pilgrim Central. Najera.
http://robscamino.com/8th-of-may-a-day-of-emotion-walking-to-najera/
Yes, excellent points. I like the "pre-booking" aspect, but I still like being able to walk on my own.My approach to my Camino was what I guess you may call an in-between approach. Not the total free improvising way and not the group and guide-led way.
I had my accommodations pre-booked all the way in hotels or casa rurales and as I didn’t want to contact all the places myself, I had a local (Galician) travel agent do that for me on the condition, that I decided the length of the daily stretches (as far as possible). And that was all they did. Of course, I had to pay for that service –everything comes at a price. But I was not part of any group, I walked by myself and I carried my own backpack all the way.
So I guess I sacrificed flexibility, at least to a certain extent. On the other hand I did not have to get up at s**t o’clock in the morning and be at the destination shortly after noon to secure a position in the bed-race; I can do without that kind of flexibility. I could walk steadily through the afternoon (I don’t mind the heat) knowing that here was a (private) bath and a bed waiting for me. It didn’t happen, but if at some point I would have had problems walking the planned distance, I could have jumped on a bus or a taxi. If I had wanted to stop short of a planned accommodation, I could just have phoned and cancelled the reservation and the next day I could take a bus to catch up on the planned stages. That would have been waste of money, of course, but everything comes at a price. So I don’t think the pre-planned approach is quite so inflexible as it is sometimes made out to be.
Then there is the question of being able to stay together with people you meet on the way. That could be a problem, but I met the same people again and again during the days and in the evenings, so I didn’t really feel I was missing much on “the social side”. I lost them in Sarria where I had a rest-day and they moved on. But hello’s and good bye’s are a part of all travelling.
Anyway, the pre-booking approach suits me well, and on my next camino (hopefully next summer) I will use it again -and it will not make me feel less of a pilgrim.
Yes, excellent points. I like the "pre-booking" aspect, but I still like being able to walk on my own.
Well, I did open it up to opinion, so there's that lol, but I agree with you. It seems like there is a lot of criticism; however, I do what I want to do and what suits me. I'm making my trip one to remember- the way I want to remember it...not the way someone else chooses to. No judgement on others. I feel incredibly fortunate to be able to take such a wonderful adventure and will enjoy it wholeheartedly!Threads like this sometimes makes me feel a little sad. Not because people are telling other people about their personal experiences and preferences – that is what this forum is all about (I think?). The problem is people telling other people, that their way of doing things is the only right one. There is no only right way; there is only The Way.
I met with a woman who pre-booked all of her accommodations ahead using the Gronze website: https://www.gronze.com/camino-francesYes, excellent points. I like the "pre-booking" aspect, but I still like being able to walk on my own.
however, I do what I want to do and what suits me. I'm making my trip one to remember- the way I want to remember it...not the way someone else chooses to. No judgement on others.
I don't see it that way. I may be mistaken, but I believe the member who inquired asked for members "thoughts" about guided pilgrimages. I take that to mean an opinion....no?Threads like this sometimes makes me feel a little sad. Not because people are telling other people about their personal experiences and preferences – that is what this forum is all about (I think?). The problem is people telling other people, that their way of doing things is the only right one. There is no only right way; there is only The Way.
Almost like a micro-aggression. No?
Excellent points, thank you. Due to my employment, my schedule for timeframe is 10 days. Not a lot, but a good start. I'm planning it to coincide with my 40th birthday month!!!I have never taken a guided tour, as it is just not for me, but over the years I have walked completely independently and have also used tour companies for self-guided tours. I would not say that I have enjoyed the independent walks any more or any less than the self-guided tours. They have all been very good. I find that the self-guided tours provide easy one-stop shopping, in that they arrange accommodation, arrange luggage transfer (if desired), and provide maps, guidebooks or route notes. It is obviously not necessary to have those items provided to you, and there is obviously a cost involved, but if you have done your research and some comparative shopping, and you are comfortable paying what they are asking for those services, then I would not hesitate to use those services if desired.
Due to my employment, I have primarily been limited to fairly short trips (i.e. 14 days of walking or less), so I have found that a self-guided tour works well for trips of that length. I doubt they would work as well for trips of longer duration, as there are just too many variables. I would not want to commit myself to a 35-day itinerary, but I would have little reservation committing to a 12 or 14 day trip.
Threads like this sometimes makes me feel a little sad. Not because people are telling other people about their personal experiences and preferences – that is what this forum is all about (I think?). The problem is people telling other people, that their way of doing things is the only right one. There is no only right way; there is only The Way.
On Camino Frances, you will meet them even if you aren't sociable!… if you are anyway sociable you will meet many fellow pilgrims.
People who are passionate about a topic can sometimes come across as 'pushy.
I think in this instance though, it's not a case of this way is the right way, but more a desire to help a Newbie realise that it's not hard to go it alone, and that there are some negative aspects of guided tours that might not have been considered.
Well said and Buen Camino!Well, I did open it up to opinion, so there's that lol, but I agree with you. It seems like there is a lot of criticism; however, I do what I want to do and what suits me. I'm making my trip one to remember- the way I want to remember it...not the way someone else chooses to. No judgement on others. I feel incredibly fortunate to be able to take such a wonderful adventure and will enjoy it wholeheartedly!
I definitely hope you do it on your own. There is really no need for a tour company. I also feel that it will take away a lot of the experience that is essential to the Camino. The logistics are SO easy. Take a backpack that is good and that is packed with as little as possible. Good shoes. Good socks. Learn to use trekking poles and off you go. The infrastructure of the CAmino Frances makes it always possible to find somewhere to sleep, eat, get great coffee.Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
Excellent points, thank you. Due to my employment, my schedule for timeframe is 10 days. Not a lot, but a good start. I'm planning it to coincide with my 40th birthday month!!!
Hi ChristineHello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
HiHello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
Reading some of the posts above, I wonder whether those who have never walked with a group, and so vehemently speak out against doing so, realise how intolerant it comes across to those (like the ones I have mentioned above) who do choose to walk with a group? It's good to give an opinion from one's own experience, but only if you have experienced both and can give an honest opinion on both alternatives.
Well said! Hands up my personal preference is to walk without a guide but if guided tours help more people experience the wonders of the Camino then that must be a good thing.This question could have been titled: Guided vs Self-Guided or not guided at all!
As a veteran Camino pilgrim (9 times to Santiago, twice to Rome) - walking solo, with friends and taking groups with my amaWalkers Camino company - here is my tuppence worth.
I'm not advertising but I do want to emphasise that ours are not 'Guided Tours' as such, and our Group Leaders are not 'Tour Guides'. We appeal to first-time and veteran pilgrims who have limited time to walk from St Jean to Santiago (ours do it in in 21-days, skipping two sections in the middle) who want to walk at their own pace, where they can choose if they want to walk with a fellow group member or not, are not tied down to pre-paid meals, and there is no air-conditioned back-up Mercedes bus with healthy snacks waiting at a prearranged spot with your picnic lunch! (I would personally love to do one of these but can't afford them!)
Organised groups and 'tours' are not new. Walking with groups is as old as the Camino itself. From the beginning, villages, towns and whole cities organised group pilgrimages to many Christian shrines across Europe, including the long distance shrines like Jerusalem, Rome and Santiago. Aimery Picaud travelled with a large group of clerics, clerks and servants and only stayed in the best monasteries they could find. Large caravans of joyous pilgrims trekked together for safety, carrying the flags of their guilds, local parishes, brotherhoods and confraternities. Saint Bona of Pisa led 10 such pilgrim groups from her hometown in Italy to Santiago in the 12th century and was made an official guide of the Knights of Santiago. She is the Patron Saint of couriers, guides, pilgrims and, more recently, flight attendants. (She is also our Patron Saint
There are probably as many reasons why people prefer to walk with an organised group as there are pilgrims but here are a few reasons - from my experience as an organiser of group walks:
Reading some of the posts above, I wonder whether those who have never walked with a group, and so vehemently speak out against doing so, realise how intolerant it comes across to those (like the ones I have mentioned above) who do choose to walk with a group? It's good to give an opinion from one's own experience, but only if you have experienced both and can give an honest opinion on both alternatives.
- Walking solo is scary for some people, not only for older women but for many men as well. They don't want to be alone, in a foreign country, on challenging paths - no matter how 'easy' people might tell them this is to do.
- Many people (mainly older people), who don't want to sleep in dormitories or carry their heavy backpacks, don't have the skills to book accommodation or luggage transfers online. Some don't have a PC or tablet, or even a Smartphone, and the terms 'Camino Apps, online reservations, google translations, or GPS, are like foreign words to them!)
- Many people don't want to be 'surprised' or have the 'adventure' of trying to find a bed at the end of the day when the COMPLETO signs have gone up, no matter how earnestly to try to convince them otherwise.
- There are many shy people out there who do not make friends easily and who find the solo trek lonely. I met a lady in Ponferrada in June who walked some way with her husband and then solo from Burgos. She told me that she was feeling not only lonely, but also alone, as she didn't make friends easily.
- Some protective families and relatives won't 'allow' their widowed mother or father, single sister or divorced aunty, to do the Camino on their own.
- Since starting amaWalkers Camino in 2010 , many of our first-time walkers have returned to Spain to walk the parts of the Camino Frances we miss, on their own. They then come back to us to walk the Aragones route or Via Francigena to Rome, because they don't want to do these alone.
- We have had people who have walked the Camino two or three times, on their own, and decided that having earned their stripes as solo, backpacking, double-bunk pilgrims, they wanted a different experience with a bed waiting for them at the end of each day, not carrying everything on their backs, without having to organise all of this themselves.
- We have had pilgrims walk with our accompanied groups on the Camino Frances, Camino Aragones and Via Francigena three and four times. These are 'real' pilgrims - priests, nuns, doctors, housewives, professors, nurses, plumbers, farmers (many members of this forum - you know who you are!) ..... all real people, real pilgrims, all called to walk a Camino and who have done it their way, and have returned to walk again and again with our groups because they had a wonderful experience.
I think some of us are misinterpreting having a different approach as being intolerant.Reading some of the posts above, I wonder whether those who have never walked with a group, and so vehemently speak out against doing so, realise how intolerant it comes across to those (like the ones I have mentioned above) who do choose to walk with a group? It's good to give an opinion from one's own experience, but only if you have experienced both and can give an honest opinion on both alternatives.
This question could have been titled: Guided vs Self-Guided or not guided at all!
As a veteran Camino pilgrim (9 times to Santiago, twice to Rome) - walking solo, with friends and taking groups with my amaWalkers Camino company - here is my tuppence worth.
I'm not advertising but I do want to emphasise that ours are not 'Guided Tours' as such, and our Group Leaders are not 'Tour Guides'. We appeal to first-time and veteran pilgrims who have limited time to walk from St Jean to Santiago (ours do it in in 21-days, skipping two sections in the middle) who want to walk at their own pace, where they can choose if they want to walk with a fellow group member or not, are not tied down to pre-paid meals, and there is no air-conditioned back-up Mercedes bus with healthy snacks waiting at a prearranged spot with your picnic lunch! (I would personally love to do one of these but can't afford them!)
Organised groups and 'tours' are not new. Walking with groups is as old as the Camino itself. From the beginning, villages, towns and whole cities organised group pilgrimages to many Christian shrines across Europe, including the long distance shrines like Jerusalem, Rome and Santiago. Aimery Picaud travelled with a large group of clerics, clerks and servants and only stayed in the best monasteries they could find. Large caravans of joyous pilgrims trekked together for safety, carrying the flags of their guilds, local parishes, brotherhoods and confraternities. Saint Bona of Pisa led 10 such pilgrim groups from her hometown in Italy to Santiago in the 12th century and was made an official guide of the Knights of Santiago. She is the Patron Saint of couriers, guides, pilgrims and, more recently, flight attendants. (She is also our Patron Saint
There are probably as many reasons why people prefer to walk with an organised group as there are pilgrims but here are a few reasons - from my experience as an organiser of group walks:
Reading some of the posts above, I wonder whether those who have never walked with a group, and so vehemently speak out against doing so, realise how intolerant it comes across to those (like the ones I have mentioned above) who do choose to walk with a group? It's good to give an opinion from one's own experience, but only if you have experienced both and can give an honest opinion on both alternatives.
- Walking solo is scary for some people, not only for older women but for many men as well. They don't want to be alone, in a foreign country, on challenging paths - no matter how 'easy' people might tell them this is to do.
- Many people (mainly older people), who don't want to sleep in dormitories or carry their heavy backpacks, don't have the skills to book accommodation or luggage transfers online. Some don't have a PC or tablet, or even a Smartphone, and the terms 'Camino Apps, online reservations, google translations, or GPS, are like foreign words to them!)
- Many people don't want to be 'surprised' or have the 'adventure' of trying to find a bed at the end of the day when the COMPLETO signs have gone up, no matter how earnestly to try to convince them otherwise.
- There are many shy people out there who do not make friends easily and who find the solo trek lonely. I met a lady in Ponferrada in June who walked some way with her husband and then solo from Burgos. She told me that she was feeling not only lonely, but also alone, as she didn't make friends easily.
- Some protective families and relatives won't 'allow' their widowed mother or father, single sister or divorced aunty, to do the Camino on their own.
- Since starting amaWalkers Camino in 2010 , many of our first-time walkers have returned to Spain to walk the parts of the Camino Frances we miss, on their own. They then come back to us to walk the Aragones route or Via Francigena to Rome, because they don't want to do these alone.
- We have had people who have walked the Camino two or three times, on their own, and decided that having earned their stripes as solo, backpacking, double-bunk pilgrims, they wanted a different experience with a bed waiting for them at the end of each day, not carrying everything on their backs, without having to organise all of this themselves.
- We have had pilgrims walk with our accompanied groups on the Camino Frances, Camino Aragones and Via Francigena three and four times. These are 'real' pilgrims - priests, nuns, doctors, housewives, professors, nurses, plumbers, farmers (many members of this forum - you know who you are!) ..... all real people, real pilgrims, all called to walk a Camino and who have done it their way, and have returned to walk again and again with our groups because they had a wonderful experience.
I have never been on a guided tour and thought it was just a money making scheme taking would be pilgrims for a ride. However, I went along to a meeting one night organised by another pilgrim I knew who had started a business for taking people from Belfast on the camino. After talking to some of the attendees, I realised the value of this type of camino. A number of them said the same thing. They wanted to do the camino but were afraid. They wanted to use a short one or two week trip to give themselves the confidence to go the whole hog. It did not matter that they were the same age as myself and my reassurances were not enough. I thought back to my first time and how apprehensive I was being out of my comfort zone of a decent hotel and guaranteed bed. My son came with me for the first two weeks then went back to work so really, I was on a guided tour with him. So, in my opinion, going on your own is the way, but if you are really scared of it, do the group for a couple of weeks to build up your confidence. But believe me when I say, there will be dozens of other pilgrims around you each day to help and encourage you and in a short time you will find, you are the one helping and encouraging. Whatever you choose, buen caminoHello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
Thanks! Actually, I have traveled quite extensively internationally for work. Certainly no concerns thereI do, however, have a limited time period so it' a strong consideration to have everything taken care of. Again, it seems everyone has their personal reasons for their respective journey. Interesting to see both sides to take into consideration!
Well, I don't know whether I was "called," but the only things that might have "tested my resolve" were the mud and the hills. And then "resolve" wasn't an issue—quitting in the middle of nowhere was not an option.... I believe that we are called to the Camino.
Even with a tour group, the Camino, unless just the last 100 km, will test your resolve.
I met a fellow pilgrim in Leon at a laundromat. He suffered (and that was the word) a hernia early in his Camino. He was traveling with his brother and another person. Sometimes he could walk, sometimes he took a taxi and waited for his brother.Well, I don't know whether I was "called," but the only things that might have "tested my resolve" were the mud and the hills. And then "resolve" wasn't an issue—quitting in the middle of nowhere was not an option.
I'm comfortable with what I'm planning and still believe I'm on a pilgrimage.
our least enjoyable experience was the poor sleep we got at most albergues due to thoughtlessness of some 'pilgrims') an
Hello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)?...What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
Go it alone anywhere along the Frances, avoid the Sarria-Santiago stretch, and take public transport to Santiago from wherever you will be within your time frame. KISSWhat are your personal experiences/thoughts?
That's the sort of tour I would like! And in fact, I may soon be on something similar.I did see one tour advertised which mixed informal language classes whilst walking and formal language classes in the evening, I think I would have got a lot out of a tour like that!
ive never heard of the camino de Santiago until tonight, and now im hooked. im not religious but I crave answers maybe in a spiritual way. and think the only way to find what you are looking for is to cut all dependencys. hit fear straight in the face and go, your love and need will show you the way. afterall life is just one big pilgrimage with a destination, death, so live it, do it. don't be shy, peace and love xHello! I'm super excited about my very first Camino in 2018! I'm curious, for those more experienced pilgrims, if you've taken your journey on your own, with a guided group (or something in between)? In determining what would be best for me within my alotted time frame, I've read many varying opinions . I've seen some very experienced pilgrims write that using the services of a guided group lessens the experience, while others say each Camino is very personal and the individual person decides what they want it to mean.
What are your personal experiences/thoughts?
ive never heard of the camino de Santiago until tonight
gee thanks, what helped a little was watching the film the way this evening, must admit I was a little disappointed, as I wanted it to be a little more intense, as I feel the pilgrimage is to meet others looking for answers and to hear their stories, as we are nothing without storiesWoiw. A real newbie. You are definitely in trouble now! But welcome!
gee thanks, what helped a little was watching the film the way this evening, must admit I was a little disappointed, as I wanted it to be a little more intense, as I feel the pilgrimage is to meet others looking for answers and to hear their stories, as we are nothing without stories
You will have to accept that not everyone walking the Camino is looking for answers, and also accept that you may not find what you are looking for. Go with an open mind and no expectations of the Camino giving you answers or being a life changing experience. Just go and enjoy the experience - let it be what it will be.gee thanks, what helped a little was watching the film the way this evening, must admit I was a little disappointed, as I wanted it to be a little more intense, as I feel the pilgrimage is to meet others looking for answers and to hear their stories, as we are nothing without stories
my goal is love, and learning how to love others, myself and the land I walk on. im not sure I could go on a social walk pilgrimage, if I met those that, didn't want to open themselves to those around them, otherwise why not go to a Buddhist colony. if I am right in my thinkings then I am god, I am the spark that keeps going, and everything around me is the image of myself. these are the words I want to tell others, not that I am the one the almighty, I am life itself, an amazing thing, but hey who wants to listen to a crackpot like me lolIf that is your goal, believe me, you will have no problem at all; there are gobs of Pilgrims with which to socialize.
For me, Camino is more of an internal, religious/spiritual journey. While I enjoy meeting others, I am focused on other things.
my goal is love, and learning how to love others, myself and the land I walk on. im not sure I could go on a social walk pilgrimage, if I met those that, didn't want to open themselves to those around them, otherwise why not go to a Buddhist colony. if I am right in my thinkings then I am god, I am the spark that keeps going, and everything around me is the image of myself. these are the words I want to tell others, not that I am the one the almighty, I am life itself, an amazing thing, but hey who wants to listen to a crackpot like me lol
my goal is love, and learning how to love others, myself and the land I walk on. im not sure I could go on a social walk pilgrimage, if I met those that, didn't want to open themselves to those around them, otherwise why not go to a Buddhist colony. if I am right in my thinkings then I am god, I am the spark that keeps going, and everything around me is the image of myself. these are the words I want to tell others, not that I am the one the almighty, I am life itself, an amazing thing, but hey who wants to listen to a crackpot like me lol
gee thanks, what helped a little was watching the film the way this evening, must admit I was a little disappointed, as I wanted it to be a little more intense, as I feel the pilgrimage is to meet others looking for answers and to hear their stories, as we are nothing without stories
I don't want to sound cynical, but it was a commercial film-- albeit a very good one. There are a number of other Camino-related films which might answer your interests more closely-- perhaps Lydia Smith's Six Ways to Santiago, which does focus on pilgrims' stories.
Any group of pilgrims will contain all sorts of different people; one might be fascinated by Spanish history, another treating it as a very Roman Catholic retreat, another likes to walk, a fourth might be mourning for a dead friend, then there's one who has an eye out for food and drink, and then a few who have no idea what they're doing there, although they'll likely find out. They might have stories to share, or they might have stories that they won't share. Whether or not they're looking for answers might well be something which will take them a few years to figure out.
I have long thought that the best advice I can have for someone preparing for their first pilgrimage is to have no expectations at all, but to enjoy the surprises. Focus on hydration and foot care, and the rest will become clear in the fulness of time.
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