How to cross hazardous streams safely

[C clearly]

I am starting a new thread based on @kelleymac 's post in another thread here, so I can tag it with "hazards." It seems like good information that we might want to refer back to during future discussions. It is rarely necessary to cross hazardous streams on the Camino, especially the popular routes, but very occasionally the need might arise. The article posted by @kelleymac below is worth reading.

I'd like to remind everyone that we, pilgrims, who are walking through do not know the local creeks and streams well. Water is stronger than we are.

I started to write out how I would cross safely with my scouts, but found this article by the Appalachian Trail. They write out safety guidelines better than I could. It's a short read and worthwhile information about backpacking and crossing water.

River and Stream Crossings | Appalachian Trail Conservancy

Fording streams and rivers may be the most dangerous challenge hikers confront. River crossings can be deceptively hazardous. Even a very shallow, swiftly flowing body of water can pack enough force to knock you off your feet. Use caution and common sense. Carry a map and compass and know how to...

appalachiantrail.org

 

[peregrina2000]

Great information. I love the “speed of a floating stick” tip.

 

[David]

Just get someone shorter than you to go first?

 

[Saint Mike II]

Just get someone shorter than you to go first?

Now, Now, David don't let your sinocism show!!

 

[David]

Now, Now, David don't let your sinocism show!!

Sinocism? What has this to do with China? I merely cracked a joke.

 

[David Tallan]

Interesting that they recommend, for those who walk with two hiking poles, to just use one when crossing and to attach the other to your pack. (If you don't use any, they recommend finding a stick you can use as a staff during the crossing.)

 

[Kiwi-family]

The one case when crossing at the narrowest point is actually allowed!
Then there was the day when we got to a river I was not comfortable crossing with the kids because it was flowing so fast - turning around and taking the alternative route meant we ended up doing over 40km that day. Another pilgrim crossed, and later reported that water reached her armpits, so according to the article, we did the right thing!
The very next day, a kind pilgrim, who we had talked to the night before got to this fast-flowing stream before us. Knowing that we were coming, he waited in the pouring rain until we arrived so that he could help us across. I was most thankful to him.

Yes, it was COLD.

 

[dick bird]

We actually had to do this, with the help of a friendly NSW parks ranger (long story). The five of us linked arms and, Zorba the Greek style, walked sideways. He told us that as we lifted a foot, we should lift it clear of the water before putting it down. This is counter-intuitive but it means the force of the water won´t be against a foot that is not planted on the riverbed. We survived.

 

[jungleboy]

The stick trick doesn’t always work!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Interesting that they recommend, for those who walk with two hiking poles, to just use one when crossing and to attach the other to your pack.

A reason may be that with two poles where your hands are in the straps if you slip and go under you may not be able to get your pack off.

When crossing a smaller stream by walking on rocks increase your poles' length by the depth of the stream.

 

[David Tallan]

A reason may be that with two poles where your hands are in the straps if you slip and go under you may not be able to get your pack off.

When crossing a smaller stream by walking on rocks increase your poles' length by the depth of the stream.

They also indicate that two poles in the water gives the water more to push against, and it is the force of the water that seems to be the danger.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

If I were to use two poles in deep water I would feel far more vulnerable than using just one, especially if I had the straps on.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

They also indicate that two poles in the water gives the water more to push against, and it is the force of the water that seems to be the danger.

Seemed a bit crazy to me so I sought another opinion on this. Here's what the Pacific Crest Trail Association says (along with a lot of other advice):

In most situations, you want to use one or two trekking poles or sturdy sticks. Lean into your pole(s) and lean into the current. It’s debatable and situation dependent whether you want to use one or two poles. If the current is moving your poles around, you might find that you need both hands to manage a single pole. But if a single pole breaks or moves, you don’t have the security of the second pole. It can be a good idea to remove your trekking pole basket to reduce drag.​

https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/backcountry-basics/water/stream-crossing-safety/

 

[GuyA]

Oh my! Recently completed the Wainwrights Coast to Coast walk in the UK where we experienced wicked rains 80mm+ rain on a couple of days in the Lake District. Would have been good to know this information before we crossed the many, many raging streams on two particular days. Let me see When Crossing article points what I/we did right.

1. Keep your shoes on

2. Use a walking stick...used two poles...however snapped a pole in half when I slipped on slippery rocky trail section and pole stayed stuck in the boggy stuff behind me. Finally we walked in Grasmere and to my surprise there were 3 sporting good stores. Entered one...manager came over...I asked “do you have trekking poles”..."Well yes we have a fully stocked section". Wow what luck so I asked “how come you have a store in such a small village?”. He smiles “We are strategically located”.

7. Keep your eyes on the prize...except in one spot where close to the “prize” I was knee deep and doing just fine and then voila thigh deep and clutching to grab the “prize”.

All other points to consider I muffed. What an incredible experience...will admit that good fortune was on our side...as opposed to good judgement...somehow made it through with a few scrapes and bruises and enjoyed our pints at end of day.

 

[Gerard Murdoch]

I am starting a new thread based on @kelleymac 's post in another thread here, so I can tag it with "hazards." It seems like good information that we might want to refer back to during future discussions. It is rarely necessary to cross hazardous streams on the Camino, especially the popular routes, but very occasionally the need might arise. The article posted by @kelleymac below is worth reading.

River and Stream Crossings | Appalachian Trail Conservancy

Fording streams and rivers may be the most dangerous challenge hikers confront. River crossings can be deceptively hazardous. Even a very shallow, swiftly flowing body of water can pack enough force to knock you off your feet. Use caution and common sense. Carry a map and compass and know how to...

appalachiantrail.org

All great replies. One thing I was told if the water flow is fast, never turn your back against the flow, as your legs would collapse. Personally, I would be apprehensive in crossing an unknowns water stretch.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

somehow made it through with a few scrapes and bruises and enjoyed our pints at end of day.

You definitely earned your pints...yikes!

 

[RRat]

View attachment 159870
The one case when crossing at the narrowest point is actually allowed!
Then there was the day when we got to a river I was not comfortable crossing with the kids because it was flowing so fast - turning around and taking the alternative route meant we ended up doing over 40km that day. Another pilgrim crossed, and later reported that water reached her armpits, so according to the article, we did the right thing!
The very next day, a kind pilgrim, who we had talked to the night before got to this fast-flowing stream before us. Knowing that we were coming, he waited in the pouring rain until we arrived so that he could help us across. I was most thankful to him.
View attachment 159872
Yes, it was COLD.

Where was this? You must have really insisted on taking a different route. You are providing an outlook that doesn't fit the experience that more than most. Perhaps after a serious down pour?

 

[David Tallan]

Where was this? You must have really insisted on taking a different route. You are providing an outlook that doesn't fit the experience that more than most. Perhaps after a serious down pour?

I think it is pretty clearly after a downpour, and Kiwi-family has done a number of routes that most people (who walk the Frances/Portugues) don't venture onto. I see no reason to doubt her words. Yes, it doesn't fit the experience of the majority of pilgrims on the Camino Frances, but that could be said of this whole thread. Crossing hazardous streams isn't generally required on the Camino Frances (although with recent reports of the rain in Spain, some previously non-hazardous streams on the Frances with effective crossing stones may not be counted upon to be so simple to cross). But this thread is about the exceptions and Kiwi-family's post is right on topic.

 

[dougfitz]

If I were to use two poles in deep water I would feel far more vulnerable than using just one, especially if I had the straps on.

I think that on stream crossings, the general recommendation is to have all straps undone - poles, pack, etc. This might include getting a waist pack into your main pack. Looking at the photos in @Kiwi-family's earlier post, while they aren't wearing long trousers through the crossing, it is clear that they still have the pack waist straps done up. Mind you, its easy to be critical in hindsight, and that is quite a narrow crossing. In similar circumstances, I know that I have done the same thing.

 

[Kiwi-family]

Where was this? You must have really insisted on taking a different route. You are providing an outlook that doesn't fit the experience that more than most. Perhaps after a serious down pour?

You are more right than you can imagine. Not just one serious downpour, but seven days of almost non-stop rain.
Our first day on the Via de la Plata, was wet but we were in high spirits: https://charitywalking.wordpress.com/2016/05/07/6-may-sevilla-to-guillena/

Our second day had some rain and lots of mud:

7 May: Guillena to Castilblanco de Los Arroyos

Today was ALL about the mud.If we’d known, we would not have tried to keep our feet dry at the stream crosssing in the first ten minutes of walking. Levi stayed dry and Micaiah was prou…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

Our third day has only one photo because it was raining so hard and it goes down as the hardest day's walk we have ever done...the river-we-turned-back-from-one mentioned above:

8 May: Castilblanco to Almaden

I am So So So Very Proud of the four could-have-been drowned rats today. They walked a marathon (literally – and accidentally), and really struggled at the end, but never once complained. Not…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

The fourth day has the photos previously included, and more wet ones:

9 May: Almaden to El Real de la Jara

This really is Quite. The. Adventure! Day two was mud, yesterday was long and today was cold water. Speaking of cold, here we are at the end of the day – clothes and packs drying by a fire. I…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

Day five brought the most rain yet:

10 May: El Real to Monesterio

Por favor. Please. Could you do something before reading? Today’s update really would be best read in the shower. Turn it on to cold and fairly steady. Every so often increase the pressure to…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

By Day Six puddles are so passe we barely notice them, certainly don't bother talking about them...but when a farmer offers to drive us through one of them, we don't turn him down!

11 May: Monesterio to Fuente de Cantos

Look who joined us today: Yes, that would be a shadow, which means there was (for five minutes anyway) some sun!!! #mamatakesaselfie Come walk with us (it’s a great day for walking, sta…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

Day Seven...would you believe it if I said there was another day of rain? But we are still remarkably upbeat

12 May: Fuente de Cantos to Zafra

Seven hours on the road…… 7:30am Waiting by the church while Micki puts plasters on his feet – but I can’t complain about him forgetting because soon I will be runnin…

charitywalking.wordpress.com

Day Eight...finally it doesn't rain and I reflect on the previous week

13 May: Zafra to Villafranca de los Barros

One of the still-in-NZ-kids sent a particularly thoughtful message yesterday: mum i just caught up on the blog, question, are you enjoying the trip so far? coz it looks miserable with all the rain …

charitywalking.wordpress.com

Day Nine, the reason we kept pushing through and not taking a rest day....Daddy and Grandpa had arrived from New Zealand and we were meeting them this day....the mud gets a mention but the sun comes out, the skies are blue and no-one believes the week we have just had:

15 May: Torremejia to Merida

Today was always going to have an early start…..Grandpa and Daddy were only 15km away over the hill, and we were keen to get to them. We were racing along at lightning speed…..until we …

charitywalking.wordpress.com

 

[Lindsay53]

I have a very nice Black Diamond pole sitting on the bottom of a river in New Zealand after losing it in an attempt to cross. The current was deceptively strong.

 

[JerryStroebele]

Never underestimate the power of moving water. If a strong flow is up to your knees VERY CAREFULLY turn around and retreat. Try elsewhere or not at all. (Been there and submerged). Buen Camino

 

[easonm]

On the CF between Sarria and Santiago are there (typically) a lot of water crossings in the winter?

 

[henrythedog]

On the CF between Sarria and Santiago are there (typically) a lot of water crossings in the winter?

No. The posts above describe situations rather more serious than you will encounter between Sarria and Santiago. It’s not exactly like a supermarket carpark, but similar.

 

[henrythedog]

Oh my! Recently completed the Wainwrights Coast to Coast walk in the UK where we experienced wicked rains 80mm+ rain on a couple of days in the Lake District. Would have been good to know this information before we crossed the many, many raging streams on two particular days. Let me see When Crossing article points what I/we did right.

1. Keep your shoes on

2. Use a walking stick...used two poles...however snapped a pole in half when I slipped on slippery rocky trail section and pole stayed stuck in the boggy stuff behind me. Finally we walked in Grasmere and to my surprise there were 3 sporting good stores. Entered one...manager came over...I asked “do you have trekking poles”..."Well yes we have a fully stocked section". Wow what luck so I asked “how come you have a store in such a small village?”. He smiles “We are strategically located”.

7. Keep your eyes on the prize...except in one spot where close to the “prize” I was knee deep and doing just fine and then voila thigh deep and clutching to grab the “prize”.

All other points to consider I muffed. What an incredible experience...will admit that good fortune was on our side...as opposed to good judgement...somehow made it through with a few scrapes and bruises and enjoyed our pints at end of day.

You passed just north of my house during what we regard as fairly normal weather - those lakes have to come from somewhere!

 

[GuyA]

You passed just north of my house during what we regard as fairly normal weather - those lakes have to come from somewhere!

I believe you…fairly normal weather is icing on the cake on my story . Almost all walkers bailed that day! Must have been something in my thinking that said “this is normal…walk!”

 

[henrythedog]

I believe you…fairly normal weather is icing on the cake on my story . Almost all walkers bailed that day! Must have been something in my thinking that said “this is normal…walk!”

Well done.

The rain round here ( I’m 12 miles south of Grasmere) can be horrendous. I have seriously good waterproofs which I refer to as my ‘going home’ clothes. If I’m in the hills and have to put them on, I’m going home.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The Milford Track in New Zealand has long been promoted as "the finest walk in the world". However, there are stretches where it gets damp enough that the trail has to be marked with poles. (It was dry for us though.) See here:

https://flic.kr/p/8Dfr8h

 

[Bill's_Walking]

Never underestimate the power of moving water. If a strong flow is up to your knees VERY CAREFULLY turn around and retreat. Try elsewhere or not at all. (Been there and submerged). Buen Camino

Definitely! I heard of a fellow fly fisher who was washed away in knee deep water on a western river and drowned. I find that on normal rivers and streams the best place to cross is usually where the water is still smooth, just up stream from the riffles (little rapids). That usually is the shallowest and widest point on the stream. If its not widest there then don't do it. As far as pants vs shorts go. I wade rivers in breathable waders with fabric like pants and a little loose fitting. So if the flow is so strong that you're concerned about the extra drag, then find a bridge, unless you're an expert.

Don't take big steps and keep your feet under you. You wont be able to see the stream bottom in fast water, so you won't know where the rocks or drop offs are. I learned the hard way, luckily in slow water. My favorite river to fly fish in is usually knee deep till you get to the "corner hole", yes its actually named, because it drops suddenly to about 20 feet deep. I've encountered similar holes in other rivers and this technique has saved me. Reminds me of like the old joke about the guy who drowned his car driving though a puddle, because he thought the ducks were just walking in the water.

 

[Caminogoat]

A reason may be that with two poles where your hands are in the straps if you slip and go under you may not be able to get your pack off.

When crossing a smaller stream by walking on rocks increase your poles' length by the depth of the stream.

And don't step on any rocks that look greenish (moss?). I got my pants washed on the spot that day.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

My favorite river to fly fish in is usually knee deep till you get to the "corner hole", yes its actually named, because it drops suddenly to about 20 feet deep.

This looks like a reason to cross with two poles, one to steady yourself and one to explore where to step next.

 

[WGroleau]

Never underestimate the power of moving water. If a strong flow is up to your knees VERY CAREFULLY turn around and retreat. Try elsewhere or not at all. (Been there and submerged). Buen Camino

This is far better advice than ANY I have read so far!!

Stay Away from the Edge | Ministry127

The story is told about a stage coach company was hiring teamsters to drive its stage coaches through a mountainous area. The local office manager had advertised for the position and people began to apply for the job. As they were interviewed, the boss asked each applicant, “How close can you...

ministry127.com

 

[Walkalong]

This is far better advice than ANY I have read so far!!

Stay Away from the Edge | Ministry127

The story is told about a stage coach company was hiring teamsters to drive its stage coaches through a mountainous area. The local office manager had advertised for the position and people began to apply for the job. As they were interviewed, the boss asked each applicant, “How close can you...

ministry127.com

Couldn't agree more.

If uncertain of the depth, or the bottom (mud, slime, rocks, even sanitary...), or need to toss a stick to gage current, you probably should not be crossing. Think of what to do if things go wrong.

I don't recall any particularly dangerous river crossings on the Frances or the Portuguese, but on different occasions, over many years, I've, been pulled off the ledge of a falls (wearing a 35-40 lb pack), broken a toe when pinned between rocks in white water, had a life threatening infection from leg punctured on a stick, and, of course, had early stage hypothermia....

Being able to walk was a significant factor in deciding to do a Camino.

 

[geraldkelly]

I haven't read all the comments on here so excuse me if somebody has already said this.

The best advice is don't take risks. It's not worth it.

Before starting walking: look at the weather, look at the recent weather, inform yourself about any streams on your day's walk, and make a decision which avoids you having to do something dangerous.

If you come across a flooded stream unexpectedly, look at your options carefully, there's always a way to go around.

 

[AlwynWellington]

It is rarely necessary to cross hazardous streams on the Camino, ... but very occasionally the need might arise.

Close to home there is a 20 km stretch of a main highway I would love to walk.

And there are two waterways. One is called a "stream" and the other a river. In both cases the road bridges are close to 100 years old, are curved and do not have shoulders. Both waterways are dangerous, even on a good day. And I would never attempt them alone.

For the scenario @C clearly outlines above, I referred to local advice and quickly found four good references. They are:

https://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/read/do-you-really-need-to-cross/​

​

https://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/learn/skills/river-safety/​

​

https://tramper.nz/15724/river-crossing-101/​

​

https://www.wildernessmag.co.nz/river-crossing-decisions/​

An image in the third shows how and adult and child might support one-another - the @Kiwi-family possible scenario.

And here is the preamble to the first reference:

Stop and take your pack off, drink some water, eat a snack, ​

think about what you see and have a chat with your group. ​

These are all basic steps everyone should take ​

before deciding if a waterway is safe to attempt a crossing.​

Kia kaha, kia māia, kia mana'wa'nui (take care, be strong, patient and confident)