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Just my opinion - I think that if your ultimate goal is to get to Santiago (or Rome) eventually, then you are a pilgrim.I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
Pope Francis famously asked, “who am I to judge?” And I think this is a pretty good question to ask oneself before opining on others’ motivations for walking the Camino. When I walked from sjpdp to SdC in may- June of this year several other pilgrims asked me why I was walking. Frankly, I found this question extremely nosy and didn’t answer it. I also found that every pilgrim who asked this really just wanted to tell me why they were walking and didn’t really care why I was walking.I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
That's really the core question, isn't it? Who, in 2022, may benefit from the hospitality of those albergues who strive to emulate the 'traditional' hospitality of the Middle Ages and/or later centuries?How pilgrimy is pilgrimy enough to qualify for a bed in the albergue?
Why is it wrong for a young person without much money to want to find somewhere cheap to stay? If there's plenty of room it makes no sense to turn someone away, as long as they follow the rules and respect other pilgrims.Beds for hikers, hotel rooms, and even whole apartments were also easily available at a higher cost. I have heard similar stories about people looking for a "cheap" bed on the Norte who did not have pilgrimage as their purpose.
Which book are you reading Kirkie?Currently I am reading a book on Medieval Irish Pilgrims to Santiago. It is illuminating. If it were a play, a spotlight would highlight the question you ask, Janet. There has never been a clearly evidenced proof of THE camino to Santiago, nor the reasons for undertaking same.
I am no expert, but I nod my head and smile when reading some of the paragraphs in the book. St James arrived in Ireland long before Patrick, for example. Bits of him are all over the place.
Aye, right, as a trueGlaswegian might say.
I like to think my pilgrimage in 2006 set the tone for my adjusted approach to the rest of my life.
If I walk at home, I am not on pilgrimage. I don't hike when on camino.
For what it is worth, a contribution to your thread.
Certainly so.How can anyine know what another truly feels? Each of us can only hope to know our own intentions.
Nothing. But reserving a pilgrim accommodation for pilgrims is the right of the organization running the albergue. There are youth hostels (and tents) for people on budgets. Kids thinking they can take advantage of albergues to have a 'free' vacation endangers the viability of the donativos, because they rely on generosity to keep going.Why is it wrong for a young person without much money to want to find somewhere cheap to stay?
Of course, but if they say they are pilgrims, who can say?Nothing. But reserving a pilgrim accommodation for pilgrims is the right of the organization running the albergue. There are youth hostels (and tents) for people on budgets. Kids thinking they can take advantage of albergues to have a 'free' vacation endangers the viability of the donativos, because they rely on generosity to keep going.
Also, what puts donativos at risk is people not paying. It makes no difference whether the non-payers walk all the way to Santiago or just a short part of the path, or whether their journey is a spiritual one or not.Nothing. But reserving a pilgrim accommodation for pilgrims is the right of the organization running the albergue. There are youth hostels (and tents) for people on budgets. Kids thinking they can take advantage of albergues to have a 'free' vacation endangers the viability of the donativos, because they rely on generosity to keep going.
Edit: It's about intention. The culture of kindness and generosity that thrives in pilgrim circles doesn't care whether you walk for a week or for three months.
endangers the viability of the donativos, because they rely on generosity to keep going.
People do lie from time to time to get what they want.but if they say they are pilgrims, who can say?
Of course, you are right, strictly speaking.Also, what puts donativos at risk is people not paying. It makes no difference whether the non-payers walk all the way to Santiago or just a short part of the path, or whether their journey is a spiritual one or not.
I wasn't there, but I trust the account of those who were, and their discernment.Why do you think these lads would be less likely to leave a donation than anybody else?
Characterising people you don't know in this way is not very generous.
They were turned away because they were deemed not to be telling the truth about being pilgrims in order to get cheap (free) beds.The people that were did not suggest they turned people away because they wouldn't pay!
I will add that my response is influenced by stories I have heard (from two very reliable people) about the same phenomenon on the Norte that is mentioned in this quote.beds for hikers, hotel rooms, and even whole apartments were also easily available at a higher cost. I have heard similar stories about people looking for a "cheap" bed on the Norte who did not have pilgrimage as their purpose.
I'm not primarily looking for such a thing, nor are many others. Some people staying at albergues offer as much or more than they would pay at a pension. There is a culture of generosity that keeps the system going and that is an incredibly valuable part of it.I find it astonishing that people who are themselves looking for a "cheap" bed can possibly condemn other who want the same thing!
Of more than 400 places to stay on the Camino Frances, 30 are still donativo. Many that once were donation-based still charge 6 euro or less, just to keep themselves alive on a trail plagued by freeloaders who won’t pay anything unless it is required.
So, because you can afford to pay more you think it's OK to criticise those who want somewhere affordable to sleep?I'm not primarily looking for such a thing, nor are many others. Some people staying at albergues offer as much or more than they would pay at a pension. There is a culture of generosity that keeps the system going and that is an incredibly valuable part of it.
I find it astonishing that someone who has never set foot on the camino can be so sure that there are no people trying to use the system to their advantage. Of course there are!
Edit. This is an old discussion, actually and what I am describing is hardly new:
Each summer I walk a segment of the Camino because I have not enough holidays to go to Santiago. After 2 years starting from Le Puy, I have left in Puente La Reina. If God wants, I will finish next year.I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
Do you have a habit of poking the bear?I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
This is rigid and very mean spirited. A cruel example of lack of compassion and mercy. This hurts.I remember on my first camino a day when an older peregrina was not allowed to stay in Rabanal's Gaucelmo, because that day she'd had her pack transported. The day before she had fallen and injured her head. Despite the injury she continued walking, but still wasn't allowed in, because of the pack.
This one.Which book are you reading Kirkie?
Cheers, Michael.
I sent you a pmWhich book are you reading Kirkie?
Cheers, Michael.
I appreciate the viewpoint of each and every person
Great to hear from a Canfranc volunteer, I was a hospitalaria in April at the albergue. Interesting questions you bring up. There were indeed many who were just doing part of the Camino but seemed very much in the spirit and spirituality of pilgrims. I also did a 'short' walk, I walked in to the albergue, which is the tradition. However (to avoid the snow over the Somport pass), the wrong way, from Sanguesa to Canfranc, but I did not feel less a pilgrim. I am in my mid-seventies and though I am fit, that was already a challenge with a pack and rain. The first time I did the Camino Frances, I did it in three visits over two years, I did not feel less of a pilgrim not being able to reach Santiago every time I was on the Camino.I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
I agree: it's a most interesting subject to think about. When is one a pilgrim and when not?The difference between hiking and pilgrimage.
I have never walked a "full" Camino.....my personal circumstances do not allow it, but I have walked a bit of a number of Caminos. When I walk any Camino it is with the sense that I am on a CAMINO. The Camino does not always give it back. I walked the Norte from San Sebastian to Bilbao and there was nothing to suggest that it was the Camino de Santiago, I really missed the spirituality of the Frances; the Portugues from Tuy to SC and the Primitivo were better. I really do not see it as part of a hospitaleros job to vet the "devoutness" of any walker. Surely it is a fundemental part of what the Camino stands for, that the albergues accept anyone who presents themselves needing a place to sleep.I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
That are the same people who think that a donativo is free.People just looking for free accommodation are doing something else entirely.
The reason it's complicated is because that narrow definition excludes (probably) most of the people who walk the Camino de Santiago.I don't quite understand what is so complicated about the meaning of the word "pilgrim". Let's keep it simple and follow the definition in the dictionaries. "A pilgrim travels/ walks for religious reasons"
Even though I am annoying and obnoxious in my day to day life, including the Camino. I do believe that this definition is a big part of why I walk. Also because it is home.
Unfortunately, I believe there are fewer and fewer who walk for religious reasons anymore. Sure there are many but fewer and fewer as time goes on. Many are on a holiday, a tour, a check off the bucket list kind of walk. Many don't care about the history that is steeped in the Camino. It's just the sign of the times I suppose.I don't quite understand what is so complicated about the meaning of the word "pilgrim". Let's keep it simple and follow the definition in the dictionaries. "A pilgrim travels/ walks for religious reasons" To expand the meaning to " spiritual reasons" is a step further, but a logical one.
We had credentials to sell. We didn't sell many though.Off topic but just wondering if you are selling credentials in this albergue. A while ago I believe you wrote to me that the Canfranc albergue had credentials. A few days ago, if I read it correctly, Rebekkah Scott said there were no credentials to be sold at the albergue. I am going in late October and I know things can change.
I would think that as hospitaleras, they would be able to judge well, and if that albergue is designated for pilgrims, then they made the right decision.I object to the suggesting that some young lads out hiking and asking for a bed at a hostel are "freeloaders".
How pilgrimy is pilgrimy enough to qualify for a bed in the albergue?
That's really the core question, isn't it?
This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported.
@Antonius Vaessen Please don't sell yourself short. Even a 'non-practicing' atheist has experiences of 'spirit' even if you don't call it that. Feelings of awe, connecting with nature, connecting with fellow humans and more all fall into my definition of spiritual. The definitions of what a 'real' pilgrim are many and varied but you sound pretty 'real' to me.Interesting discussion here. I walked the last 7 years on caminos. I don't consider myself a pilgrim, I am a "non-practicising" atheist and don't want to walk to Santiago anymore ,(also to avoid the crowds and the "commerciality"). Most of the times I stayed in albergues, because of the possibilities of meeting people and also because of the price. I like the idea behind the donativoprinciple but in practice I prefer albergues with fixed prices. In all my caminos I never have been asked at registration with which intention I walked, let alone that that would be decisive for allowing me to stay there. Of course any organisation is free to decide on their "door policy" If an albergue wants to serve only "real" pilgrims with spiritual, religious motivations it should be clear beforehand and perhaps have influence on the "program" , daily routine. That way it would attract people who are walking with religious motivation
Feels a bit that way to me these days .... but who am I to judge?Does it really matter anymore? It might be a pilgrimage for a minority. But most people we meet on the various camino routes are clearly tourists. They want to try it - it sounds exciting - my cousin did it last year etc etc.
What does it mean to walk "unsupported"? I am planning to walk the entire Camino Frances as a pilgrim as I am walking for a spiritual reason. I have bone-on-bone arthritis w/ bone spurs in my foot, and an old rotator cuff injury. (62 years old). I can't carry a full pack so am getting transport help for the pack, but walking the entire route. (God willing!). Does that mean I am not walking unsupported and thereby not welcome in the alberques?I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
Well. If we were why come all the way to Spain? We could as easily hike/tramp/walk at home.are we just hikers?
Q.E.D.I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
Breathe, a SantaMonicaPeregrina.Does that mean I am not walking unsupported and thereby not welcome in the alberques?
Those “old-school” albergues often don’t accept baggage free pilgrims because said pilgrims travel faster than those burdened by bags, sometimes grabbing one of the few available beds simply due to speed. However, there is another reason why this policy exists.That said some old-school albergues will not accept people who hare their pack transported.
In the end, what did you feel about your experience as a hospitalera? While that obviously intersects meaningfully with pilgrims, it is also possible to deflect questions of identity onto them rather than upon yourself. Did you feel ownership over them during their interactions with you? Did volunteering there give a sense of ownership over the albergue itself? It might make some pilgrims feel uncomfortable to rub against unstated expectations, however kindly conceived or presented, as in a loaf of banana bread with details of its travail attached. Perhaps it's a give-and-take dance and lesson that way, along the way - for hospitaleros as much as peregrinos?I have just finished my time as hospitalera at Canfranc's Elias Valina Albergue. This albergue is only for pilgrims with a credential who are walking unsupported. Our last night we had a couple of lads who "claimed" to be pilgrims, however, they were were just boys out hiking one of the popular GR routes and wanted a cheap bed. We didn't allow them to stay, but it did get me to thinking...
Of the pilgrims who stayed with us, only a handful expressed the intent to walk all the way to Santiago. Many were experienced pilgrims wanting to walk a less traveled route and planned to leave the Camino at or before it met with the CF at Puenta la Reina.
Many of us only walk a short segment each year without the intention to go to Santiago, myself included, although some pilgrims walk a short section and then return to finish eventually in Santiago. It does seem like after the first Compostella is earned that the Santiago goal is less important to many.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers? Should we stay in albergues with the pilgrim spirit? I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
I am sure this thread will generate opinions, so please let's be civil to each other. I just want to reflect on what makes us feel different between hiking and pilgrimage.
This one.
I sent you a pm
Cherry picking two narrow definitions to suit your argument when there are broader definitions that don't hinge on travelling for religious purposes. The rest of the argument presented here then falls apart. There is ample scope for non-Catholics and non-religous pilgrims.These old definitions are very clear: you're not a pilgrim, unless you're doing the Camino for religious reasons.
I so appreciate this response, because from the pilgrim side we rarely consider such things.Perhaps it's a give-and-take dance and lesson that way, along the way - for hospitaleros as much as peregrinos?
Google is your friendPity you answered in a pm, Kirkie. I too wanted to know and was looking for your answer. So if you cannot tell us publicly the title of your book, will you kindly pm me too?!
No problem. I just did not want to derail the thread. I took photos of front and back covers. It is not a book I can say I am loving reading, but I am enjoying learning through the information in it. I am sure you would be able to borrow it from your library, but if you are interested in more learned books, it could be something you might want to buy. I got mine in Kenny's of Galway, online, free postage worldwide.Google is your friend
Google is your friend
Why is it wrong for a young person without much money to want to find somewhere cheap to stay? If there's plenty of room it makes no sense to turn someone away, as long as they follow the rules and respect other pilgrims.
That's fair enough.My understanding is that the reason was they did not comply with the rules of that albergue - they did not have a credential.
I don't see the point of expanding the meaning/definition of a word so far that in the end it means not so much anymore. ( Like when somebody asks me "Do you love me?" Your answer would be "I love everybody") When I walked the Coast to Coast or in Nepal for instance I walked with exactly the same intentions, the question if I could be considered a pilgrim never occurred ( neither for my other walkers)@Antonius Vaessen Please don't sell yourself short. Even a 'non-practicing' atheist has experiences of 'spirit' even if you don't call it that. Feelings of awe, connecting with nature, connecting with fellow humans and more all fall into my definition of spiritual. The definitions of what a 'real' pilgrim are many and varied but you sound pretty 'real' to me.
Google is your friend
Thank you, Kirkie. Found it, and am getting it and Kenny's have got a new customer....No problem. I just did not want to derail the thread. I took photos of front and back covers. It is not a book I can say I am loving reading, but I am enjoying learning through the information in it. I am sure you would be able to borrow it from your library, but if you are interested in more learned books, it could be something you might want to buy. I got mine in Kenny's of Galway, online, free postage worldwide.
Good luck, and buen camino.
Pelerine, sorry, am using my phone and did not see that it was you who had asked for the information! Now you have it.
Good idea, I would like to do the same below.Coming back this morning to the OP, after reading the many good posts here since last night.
So, are we pilgrims when we want to walk part of a Camino or are we just hikers?
If my home is close to Spain and even closer to other camino routes in Portugal, does that change the equation?Well. If we were why come all the way to Spain? We could as easily hike/tramp/walk at home.
You actually seem to have answered your own question, @J Willhaus:
I agree but I am about to 'test' this in a way that I never have before. A few days ago, I decided that since I have a window of opportunity at the end of this month, I would walk the CP coastal solo. I'm only going to walk from Porto to Vigo, having already walked the parts after that (or after Redondela, more accurately) twice, including this June. So if I'm only walking for seven days, not ending in Santiago, not walking a historic route, and only doing it because I have never walked this route before and because I like walking, is it still a pilgrimage or is it like the Rota Vicentina?I still feel like a pilgrim when I walk the shorter distances and that feeling is different than when I am a hiker at home in the mountains where I live.
For some reason I am not able to click on the photos to enlarge them. I get this error message "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action." @ivar - what does this mean?No problem. I just did not want to derail the thread. I took photos of front and back covers. It is not a book I can say I am loving reading, but I am enjoying learning through the information in it. I am sure you would be able to borrow it from your library, but if you are interested in more learned books, it could be something you might want to buy. I got mine in Kenny's of Galway, online, free postage worldwide.
Good luck, and buen camino.
Pelerine, sorry, am using my phone and did not see that it was you who had asked for the information! Now you have it.
For some reason I am not able to click on the photos to enlarge them. I get this error message "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action." @ivar - what does this mean?
BTW, the book is Medieval Irish Pilgrims to Santiago De Compostela by Bernadette Cunningham
Thanks, Trecile. I am sorry the trouble it caused trying not to derail Janet's thread!For some reason I am not able to click on the photos to enlarge them. I get this error message "You do not have permission to view this page or perform this action." @ivar - what does this mean?
BTW, the book is Medieval Irish Pilgrims to Santiago De Compostela by Bernadette Cunningham
I live in Mexico unfortunately. Getting something by mail here gives me about a 2 in 10 chance of getting it and if I do get it there is then a 1 in 10 chance it will come before I leave haha!Yes, we had credentials. Can you order one one American Pilgrims? There is plenty of time.
There is a long discussion on this here https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...he-pilgrims-who-dont-carry-their-packs.11630/ that started in 2011 and was active again a couple of years ago. While the credential text puts the onus on the individual, I cannot see how you can come to any other conclusion than that one is walking supported if one regularly uses a pack transport service. How welcome you will be in albergues is a separate matter, and one which I would only be speculating about.What does it mean to walk "unsupported"? I am planning to walk the entire Camino Frances as a pilgrim as I am walking for a spiritual reason. I have bone-on-bone arthritis w/ bone spurs in my foot, and an old rotator cuff injury. (62 years old). I can't carry a full pack so am getting transport help for the pack, but walking the entire route. (God willing!). Does that mean I am not walking unsupported and thereby not welcome in the alberques?
I think "google is your friend" is just an American expression. You could plug alot of nouns instead of Google. I do not think it is meant to be taken literally. But I agree Google is many things but not my friend either.Google may be your friend, Jim, but most certainly is not mine! Cannot do without, but friend?
Thank you, Kirkie. Found it, and am getting it and Kenny's have got a new customer....
It's a good mix.Perhaps useful to point out that there is no higher entity or authority that regulates the definition of "Camino de Santiago pilgrim" or "Camino de Santiago pilgrim albergue". Perhaps one could even go as far as to say that a number of agents compete with each other about the direction that the contemporary pilgrimage to Santiago and its hospitality ought to take.
I also don't quite understand what "old school" albergues are. I mean how "old" is old here? I am thinking of the pilgrim albergue of Roncesvalles, probably without a doubt the most famous pilgrim albergue on the Camino de Santiago with the oldest roots and the longest tradition of caring for pilgrims and (formerly) other travellers. They allow online reservation, albeit only for a certain percentage of their beds, they allow backpack transport (albeit only by one operator), they are owned by a diocese (and were formerly owned by a monastery/chapter of canons), daily management is in the hands of international volunteers under the supervision of local staff, and you can arrive by bus or taxi from Pamplona or SJPP and buy a credencial there and then. Is that old school or new school?
Pope Francis famously asked, “who am I to judge?” And I think this is a pretty good question to ask oneself before opining on others’ motivations for walking the Camino. When I walked from sjpdp to SdC in may- June of this year several other pilgrims asked me why I was walking. Frankly, I found this question extremely nosy and didn’t answer it. I also found that every pilgrim who asked this really just wanted to tell me why they were walking and didn’t really care why I was walking.
If I’ve understood correctly, you and your spouse have been volunteer hospitaleros in an albergue with very few visitors - some days none at all. Yet you sent away some young men because they didn’t convince you of their sincerity as pilgrims (was their youth- mentioned twice in your description of them- a factor in your judgement of their sincerity?). Other visitors have walked to Santiago in the past and are just hiking around now but they qualify as “pilgrims” because of their previous experience. How pilgrimy is pilgrimy enough to qualify for a bed in the albergue? How much of one’s personal motivation must one reveal to strangers to be accepted as a pilgrim-enough? I had hours of very non-pilgrimy thoughts and feelings while walking to SdC and have spiritually moving days walking through grimy neighborhoods in Chicago on the regular.
Are you hoping to define the line between not-quite-pilgrim and definitely-pilgrim so that judging who gets to stay in the albergue is clear?
I have no idea what you are really trying to say here but I grew up in the 1960's in the Bronx in one of those "grimy" neighborhoods with a few burnt out storefronts and some drug dealing not only on the "regular" but every day of my life where we had lots of moving experiences just playing or running away so we didn't get our butts kicked in or worse. "Grimy" to you was home for me.I had hours of very non-pilgrimy thoughts and feelings while walking to SdC and have spiritually moving days walking through grimy neighborhoods in Chicago on the regular.
The OP specifically states that they said they were pilgrims and she decided that they weren't.If they were pilgrims and did not have a credential they could have asked for one.
Did they have a credential? I do not know. Anyone could say they are a pilgrim and may be just looking for a free ride. I believe that the OP (what does OP even stand for?? haha) is someone with experience, good judgement and good intentions . I base this on the many, many posts I have read from them. Sometimes you have to go with your gut and I have a feeling his/her gut instinct in this matter is probably pretty good. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I still agree with the determination not to allow them in. My opinion and about 3 bucks will get you on the subway!The OP specifically states that they said they were pilgrims and she decided that they weren't.
This doesn't really represent how it evolved. There is a post on the other thread that provides more detail. But let's move on from the specifics on that one judgement call.The OP specifically states that they said they were pilgrims and she decided that they weren't.
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