- Time of past OR future Camino
- All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
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No it's not a joke, and it's not only for Pilgrims.So, if a pilgrim arrives, tired, hungry, thirsty from their walk, they can be fined for pulling out their water bottle and a granola bar or banana from their backpack? Is that a joke?
Students of the arcane might like to note that the fine may be paid in advance of the offence. Presumably this amounts to a €100 fee to picnic in the square.
And that the fact that the tourists see us (the pilgrims) as part of the general tourist spectacle.Thank you @Peter Fransiscus, for posting this to let us know that we will be breaking the law by defacing that hallowed place by drinking or eating something something.
Now about those stupid little white trains, and the vendors of kitsch...
I saw a pigeon eating, does that count?If you want to do your own spot checking on Picnics in the Praza, you can check the webcam. Surprisingly clear images.
Praza do Obradoiro | CRTVG
Cámara Web situada nunha balconada do Pazo de Raxoi, sede da Presidencia da Xunta de Galicia e do Concello. Á esquerda da imaxe vese o Hostal dos Reis Católicos, á fronte a fachada do Obradoiro da Catedral e á dereita o Colexio de San Xerome.www.crtvg.es
Arrest her!I saw a pigeon eating, does that count?
Maybe she arrived on the white trainAnd that the fact that the tourists see us (the pilgrims) as part of the general tourist spectacle.
As I sat on the stones in front of the cathedral a woman tourist walked up, stuck her camera right in my face, telling her husband - here's a real pilgrim. And was miffed to find I understood english, and put my hand up to cover her lens, as I asked her to please stop. No thankyou. I didnt want to be a close-up in their holiday snaps.
Arrest her!
I think the mayor of Florence may be on to something.The mayor of the city said then that, with this formula, he sought to put an end to "rude" tourists and encourage consumption in the city's restaurants
So what happens to all the gelato shop owners selling ice cream outdoors?I think the mayor of Florence may be on to something.
I don't particularly remember anyone picnicing in the square. I'm sure it must happen but certainly when I was last there it wasn't something either particularly noticeable or that was bringing down the ambience of the place.
I'm a natural cynic and some wrong-headed drive to get people into city centre restaurants was my first thought when I read it. After the last couple of years and impending recession you can't really blame the city for wanting to protect their businesses but this seems like a very cynical and unwelcoming way of going about it. In fact, it kind of sends the opposite message. It's the finish line for what is often a massive undertaking for most people, if you're going to be that unwelcoming then maybe continuing on to the coast is more appealing.
And all the little takeaway shops in the area. If you can't eat outdoors then these little places are doomed. But they aren't the people pressing palms and scratching backs in the chambers of commerce or industry associations.So what happens to all the gelato shop owners selling ice cream outdoors?
I've never noticed the eating, nor paid any attention to it, but like you @VNwalking, the white trains immediately came to my mind, too. Also, what about the other large tour groups wearing their bright color matching hats and T-shirts, which seems to take away from what the City Council is trying to accomplish.Now about those stupid little white trains, and the vendors of kitsch...
Well, most of us do have a certain type of "look" when we first straggle in...a bit homeless perhaps. You could have pointed your phone back at her and asked if you could take a picture...possibly she was wearing a tourist yellow hat and T-shirt.As I sat on the stones in front of the cathedral a woman tourist walked up, stuck her camera right in my face, telling her husband - here's a real pilgrim.
It could be that this triggered images of the fall of man, and that’s what kicked off the enforcement binge.In fact, these days the agents have come to warn a woman who was tasting an apple while contemplating the Cathedral.
Wow! I haven't looked at the Webcam for a few years. The clarity of the images are so much better!!If you want to do your own spot checking on Picnics in the Praza, you can check the webcam. Surprisingly clear images.
I have looked at the three webcams (Orbadoiro, Praterias and Quintana) from time to time in recent weeks. And I have looked at it today around (local) midday: the square was massively filled with people, I have never seen anything like this before. August crowds in Santiago I guess ... and maybe also due to additional influx because of the current PEJ 2022 event.Wow! I haven't looked at the Webcam for a few years. The clarity of the images are so much better!!
Thank you! That answers my question! The European Youth Pilgrimage. I wondered - a stage set up, barriers and large groups of young people in purple t-shirts. Hope they don't pull out a snackI have looked at the three webcams (Orbadoiro, Praterias and Quintana) from time to time in recent weeks. And I have looked at it this afternoon: the square was massively filled with people, I have never seen anything like this before. August crowds in Santiago I guess ... maybe also due to additional influx because of the current PEJ 2022 event.
Absolutely love this, what's going on today? Looks interestingIf you want to do your own spot checking on Picnics in the Praza, you can check the webcam. Surprisingly clear images.
Praza do Obradoiro | CRTVG
Cámara Web situada nunha balconada do Pazo de Raxoi, sede da Presidencia da Xunta de Galicia e do Concello. Á esquerda da imaxe vese o Hostal dos Reis Católicos, á fronte a fachada do Obradoiro da Catedral e á dereita o Colexio de San Xerome.www.crtvg.es
Technically, that is the law. NO eating or drinking in the Plaza Obradoiro.So, if a pilgrim arrives, tired, hungry, thirsty from their walk, they can be fined for pulling out their water bottle and a granola bar or banana from their backpack? Is that a joke?
To be honest, I don't see how an exhausted pilgrim sitting in the plaza for a moment and taking a sip of water and eating a granola bar is disrespecting the city of Santiago. Tourists making phone calls, loudly, while walking through the cathedral during mass, maybe. Nobody cared about that the last times I was there...This rule may seem like overreach to some, but shouldn't we be respectful of the city that welcomes us?
I very much doubt that they will bother someone having a drink of water on the plaza.To be honest, I don't see how an exhausted pilgrim sitting in the plaza for a moment and taking a sip of water and eating a granola bar is disrespecting the city of Santiago. Tourists making phone calls, loudly, while walking through the cathedral during mass, maybe. Nobody cared about that the last times I was there...
I'm from a country where we really like to follow rules, but this no eating/drinking
at all rule sounds silly even to me. No big group picknicks makes sense, prohibiting any eating/drinking in the city apart from doing it in a restaurant/bar/café/ect is simply a way to force people to spend more money (which most will do anyway).
Eating and drinking are basic human needs. If you're not allowed to even drink some water, that is not something I will ever understand (even if they are maybe not enforcing it in such 'minor' cases).
I have seen younger folks sitting around in circles in this area eating a picnic lunch. An hour later we walked through and they were still sitting there. I can understand the city not wanting too many groups to take up space, lingering, sleeping eating and drinking in the square.This rule may seem like overreach to some, but shouldn't we be respectful of the city that welcomes us?
just another bit of click-bait.
Some years back I spent a week in Toledo, Spain’s so-called other magical city. Loads of tourists and visitors. Walking early morning before the crowds was a treat,The Plaza was spotless, almost as if it had been burnished overnight. However, an hour or so before this ie at first light, it was a totally different story. Garbage everywhere, discarded drink bottles and cans, discarded food wrappers, some with the remains of food, wrappings ripped off purchased gifts, even signs of defecation. There were teams of workers with huge hoses trying to clean things up. Before “we” complain that restrictions on eating and drinking in public places are an infringement on our personal liberties, remember that not everyone is like “us”.Camino de Santiago
Bienvenido a la Web de la Federación Española de Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago. Todo sobre el Camino de Santiago, información, guías, descripción, planos, consejos, albergues, hospitaleros, noticias, Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino.www.caminosantiago.org
I suspect the leaving of litter, as seems to be the habit of many "pilgrims" led to this - though I could be wrong. Generally, the bad behavior of a few ruin things for the rest of us. That has been my personal experience on my last Camino, anyway... ::To be honest, I don't see how an exhausted pilgrim sitting in the plaza for a moment and taking a sip of water and eating a granola bar is disrespecting the city of Santiago. Tourists making phone calls, loudly, while walking through the cathedral during mass, maybe. Nobody cared about that the last times I was there...
I'm from a country where we really like to follow rules, but this no eating/drinking
at all rule sounds silly even to me. No big group picknicks makes sense, prohibiting any eating/drinking in the city apart from doing it in a restaurant/bar/café/ect is simply a way to force people to spend more money (which most will do anyway).
Eating and drinking are basic human needs. If you're not allowed to even drink some water, that is not something I will ever understand (even if they are maybe not enforcing it in such 'minor' cases).
An inevitable consequence of takeaway food is litter - so I really do not mind the reported ban on eating and drinking in the Plaza - entirely reasonable IMHO...An interesting article about Santiago.
Camino de Santiago
Bienvenido a la Web de la Federación Española de Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago. Todo sobre el Camino de Santiago, información, guías, descripción, planos, consejos, albergues, hospitaleros, noticias, Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino.www.caminosantiago.org
Thankyou for this explanation. As pilgrims, tourists or travellers it is good to be aware of local cultural norms and to respect them.A Godgle translation of the article for those that might appreciate it:
Two young people eating in front of the Cathedral
No sandwiches, no coffee. The City Council of Santiago de Compostela (A Coruña) does not allow eating or drinking in the Plaza del Obradoiro. It is not a new norm. But in recent days the Local Police is warning tourists about it.
There are so many people who are concentrated these days in what is the square with the most history in the city that surveillance has been intensified. The norm does not allow snacks or sandwiches or even fruit. In fact, these days the agents have come to warn a woman who was tasting an apple while contemplating the Cathedral.
The ultimate goal is that the square does not become an area in which to have picnics or drinks, deteriorating the image of the space and of a monument that is a World Heritage Site. The consumption of drinks and food is, in fact, prohibited throughout the city as long as "the action of consumption can deteriorate the tranquility of the environment or cause unhealthy situations in it", according to the ordinance of coexistence, waste and street cleaning .
The fine faced by those who do not comply with the regulations is 200 euros (100 if paid in advance).
Police sources assure that at the moment they have dedicated themselves solely to advising visitors that this municipal regulation exists and that they must comply with it. At the moment, no sanction has been processed for this. In the square there are no signs warning of this prohibition. For this reason, many visitors are surprised when they are told that they cannot eat or have a snack in the square.
Other cities already do [this] Santiago follows, in this way, the path of other European cities such as Rome. In this Italian city, eating near the most outstanding historical monuments can lead to fines of between 25 and 500 euros.
Florence is another of the cities that also vetoes meals in its historic center. In 2018, a regulation was approved there that contemplates fines of up to 500 euros for tourists who eat and drink on the street. The mayor of the city said then that, with this formula, he sought to put an end to "rude" tourists and encourage consumption in the city's restaurants.
Students of the arcane might like to note that the fine may be paid in advance of the offence. Presumably this amounts to a €100 fee to picnic in the square.
Students of law might like to recall the statute that forbids "the permission of a wheeled vehicle on any pavement" applicable, still, in the City of Winchester UK and a constant conundrum for the local traffic police.
Students of modern media may like to consider whether this is just another bit of click-bait.
I don't believe this for a second to be accurate reporting. I tend to think that the writer of the NIUS article embellished the story a bit as it is rather boring: Police organised an information campaign recently to inform pilgrims and other tourists as well as the wider public (thanks to media reports about the campaign) about local laws in order to prevent things from getting worse. That happened a few days ago.The norm does not allow snacks or sandwiches or even fruit. In fact, these days the agents have come to warn a woman who was tasting an apple while contemplating the Cathedral.
This is like giving someone a band aid and a parecetamol before hitting them. Which is, of course, the more courteous thing to do.The fine faced by those who do not comply with the regulations is 200 euros (100 if paid in advance).
That's interesting. It's the first time that I hear this. It would never have occurred to me to organise or participate in a welcome party on the Praza do Obradoiro with snacks and drinksHappened to us in 2016. A Camino friend who arrived the day before, met us in the square with surprise snacks. We were very surprised to be threatened with a fine.
in particular large groups that are noisy and/or exuberant.
Lovely. But to be fair, they don't object to the occasional noise. They object to the daily noise.Alternatively, if you wish to be noisy and exuberant do it with a bit of style. Traditional dress and bring your own piper.
Last October in the Praza.
Last paragraph on the poster [translated from Galician]A local association even drew up a poster with a decalógo de boas practicas para o tramo final do Camiño - good practices for pilgrims on the last stage of the Camino
I saw a pigeon eating, does that count?
It certainly is in the UK as well but it shouldn't be inevitable. It is really a cultural or educational issue.An inevitable consequence of takeaway food is litter
Japanese Sushi restaurants are often known for their impeccable cleanliness, both in the kitchen and behind the counter, to provide the best possible experience to their customers.On the Shikoku 88 over 10 days I think we saw two pieces of litter. Maybe we need a few "henro" (Japanese pilgrim) on the Camino.
Circa a year ago, SdC and those with establishments along the camino were desperate and longing for pilgrims. And now that they are coming…..?Santiago de Compostela has 98.000 inhabitants. According to the latest data from the Spanish National Statistics Office, the town had 83.000 visitors in June 2022. The resulting pressures on the locals, seen in relation to the town's population, are higher than in cities like Barcelona, Granada, or Sevilla. The source for this is a news article published yesterday: Sky-high rents, chanting at all hours [some of it praising Jesus], horses in the churches: tourism overflows Santiago and puts a strain on locals [in Spanish]. The article contains this somewhat unusual image:
View attachment 130539
There's always the bad apples.
I wonder what it would look like if every pilgrim decided to pop a cork or open a beer on the plaza?I popped a bottle of champagne at the finish in front of the Cathedral and several of us drank from it merrily. We had just completed a 800 km walk and we earned it. No one cared, nor should they.
as if this law serves as a prevention against littering -- lol... and still the street cleaners have to work every night!I think it is quite reasonable to have this law - to reduce litter and prevent the square from becoming a park for all-day picnicking and even camping. Of course, the enforcement is a matter of judgement. Perhaps in the preparation for the large crowds of the Youth Pilgrimage, or just as a reminder to all, the authorities decided to step up the warnings.
A massive celebration of course! The Camino provides!!!I wonder what it would look like if every pilgrim decided to pop a cork or open a beer on the plaza?
Yup. Definitely brings up memories of the times I was involved in ACW LH/Re-enactment.And that the fact that the tourists see us (the pilgrims) as part of the general tourist spectacle.
As I sat on the stones in front of the cathedral a woman tourist walked up, stuck her camera right in my face, telling her husband - here's a real pilgrim. And was miffed to find I understood english, and put my hand up to cover her lens, as I asked her to please stop. No thankyou. I didnt want to be a close-up in their holiday snaps.
CW, I've seen a picture of you in your re-enactment clothing garb. You definitely looked real...I can see why they pinched you in person.Yup. Definitely brings up memories of the times I was involved in ACW LH/Re-enactment.
Cant even BEGIN to tell you how many time cameras (sometimes with flash on full force) were literally stuck in my face or how many times I was prodded or pinched (just to see "if I am real")
I was always amazed on the Camino in the larger cities to see the street sweepers/cleaner machines out every morning early...totally awesome!the street cleaners have to work every night!
Damn Yankees!many times I was prodded or pinched (just to see "if I am real")
AHZ SAYN!Damn Yankees!
Chrissy - it was one of the things that firmly stuck in my head as I was walking; in fact I mentioned it to my wife during one of our chats before she met me in Santiago.I was always amazed on the Camino in the larger cities to see the street sweepers/cleaner machines out every morning early...totally awesome!
I don't live in a big US city, but wonder if we do that too, every early morn.
I don't know what a "land mine" is, but assume there is some humor in your post.On the other hand - the land mines in the little villages would definitely benefit from those cleaner machines
In 1943/44 during the advance through Italy the Allies manufactured explosive landmines shaped to look like mule or cow droppings and these were sprinkled liberally on roads the retreating Germans used.I don't know what a "land mine" is, but assume there is some humor in your post.
Mentioned this to a fellow Pilgrim and she came back with:An interesting article about Santiago.
Camino de Santiago
Bienvenido a la Web de la Federación Española de Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino de Santiago. Todo sobre el Camino de Santiago, información, guías, descripción, planos, consejos, albergues, hospitaleros, noticias, Asociaciones de Amigos del Camino.www.caminosantiago.org
I assume it's something to avoid and not step in.The mines left behind by cows crossing the trail
I was always amazed on the Camino in the larger cities to see the street sweepers/cleaner machines out every morning early...totally awesome!
I don't live in a big US city, but wonder if we do that too, every early morn.
Depends, when I was a young lad walking bare foot to school in Winter with ice on the puddles, recently dropped, steamy cow pats were a good way to warm the toes.I assume it's something to avoid and not step in.
Hey - we do walk through agricultural landscapes and must be respectful of agricultural practices from generations past, rater than expect the cows to be responsible for the cleaniless of pilgrims... If pilgrims could only raise their eyes from their smartphone, they might avoid these deposits and everyone will be that much happier...Chrissy - it was one of the things that firmly stuck in my head as I was walking; in fact I mentioned it to my wife during one of our chats before she met me in Santiago.
Yes we do have street sweepers\cleaning machines in US big cities but to my best knowledge that extends (or rather is contained) to downtown proper, so....
On the other hand - the land mines in the little villages would definitely benefit from those cleaner machines
No disrespect was intended for Camino cows and I meant it tongue-in-cheek which is why there is a winking emojiHey - we do walk through agricultural landscapes and must be respectful of agricultural practices from generations past, rater than expect the cows to be responsible for the cleaniless of pilgrims... If pilgrims could only raise their eyes from their smartphone, they might avoid these deposits and everyone will be that much happier...
What about eating a pigeon?I saw a pigeon eating, does that count?
What about eating a pigeon?
The "picnic in the Obradoiro" controversy has resurfaced again this summer. A couple of websites today commenting on the practice. Illustrated with a photo which is admittedly not a great advert! Following close on a flurry of stories earlier this week about a German peregrina who thought it was appropriate to write the distance she had travelled on the Obradoiro paving stones.
Nueva polémica por dos peregrinos que, semidesnudos, hicieron un picnic en pleno Obradoiro
Solo unos días después de que la imagen de una peregrina que pintó con tiza la emblemática plaza se hiciese viral, un ciudadano recoge otro comportamiento incívicowww.abc.es
The "picnic in the Obradoiro" controversy has resurfaced again this summer. A couple of websites today commenting on the practice. Illustrated with a photo which is admittedly not a great advert! Following close on a flurry of stories earlier this week about a German peregrina who thought it was appropriate to write the distance she had travelled on the Obradoiro paving stones.
Nueva polémica por dos peregrinos que, semidesnudos, hicieron un picnic en pleno Obradoiro
Solo unos días después de que la imagen de una peregrina que pintó con tiza la emblemática plaza se hiciese viral, un ciudadano recoge otro comportamiento incívicowww.abc.es
Semi naked? Looks like they just took their shirts off....which is technically, I suppose, "semi naked"....but really? Why so ashamed of that?I'm so ashamed, only reading it.
The semi naked guys!
The German peregrina!
Saddened.
I pulled up the article and saw the picture of the half naked men...Oh my eyes! My eyes!!I'm so ashamed, only reading it.
The semi naked guys!
The German peregrina!
Saddened.
It's called good manners; not everyone needs or wants to see all that skin ad excess flesh. The Plaza is not a Playa.Why so ashamed of that?
Laurie, you're chanelling a lot of us.Following on the heels of the discussion of the QR code placed along the Camino, I think this is just another illustration of that same attitude — me me me me me is what matters, hey we’re not bothering anyone, hey, it’s just a little scribble on the plaza and I need to announce my accomplishment to the entire world, hey it’s just a tiny little QR code that leads you to my very important website and channel.
Sounds grumpy,
Nope. Because you're not. Nor are you a grump. It's called discernment, and calling out selfish behavior. To tiptoe around selfishness just enables it.call me a curmudgeon
Imposing yourself on others is obnoxious behavior. They might be totally nice guys, just oblivious - who knows? I don't, and don't think that necessarily means much about them personally.except to realize how harshly they are being viewe
My grumpiness is taking me in another direction.
Seeing the photos of the "semi-naked" men does not make me sad, except to realize how harshly they are being viewed. They probably got much joy and health out of the experience. Having a picnic on the square is not such an appalling idea in itself, so let's not exaggerate their sin or mock them. I have no idea if they were lovely gentlemen or obnoxious louts.
I totally support and try to conform to whatever rules of decorum the authorities wish to declare. However, they need to be clear and consistent in their expectations of the thousands of foreign visitors from different cultures. We should try to stay off high horses.
Thank you, well said. I agree 100%.It is called common sense not to do that on a public plaza!
What next ? Without a shirt in the cathedral?
Sorry, but I get a bit fed up with the political correctness of trying to tiptoe around some obnoxious behaviour and try to " see the other side ".
And I too do not judge these persons but merely their behaviour.
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