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Thank you for posting. As hospitaleros, we probably need to develop a multi lingual document explaining any changes and perhaps a list of the necessary information and sources. I will contact American Pilgrims to make sure this gets in their training for this year as my husband will be on that training team. Hope it can be repealed, but if not we will be prepared.Hi every one. Have you, as a pilgrim checking-in into an albergue/hostel/hotel in Spain ever felt it weird that you were asked to fill in a form with some basic personal information, and/or have been asked to sign on the screen of a mobile device (phone, tablet...) after the Reception staff had scanned your passport or ID with that same device?
This is due to the Spanish law having required, until now, that all travellers staying in any kind of lodging in Spain, have their basic data collected and then, over the night, this information sent to the Police or Guardia Civil.
Right now a new law has been approved, starting February 2023, for which A LOT MORE INFORMATION will have to be collected from the travellers, making the whole process a lot slower for both the hospitalero and the pilgrim, and a lot more intruding into the pilgrim's personal space.
From the traveller's point of view the data that will now have to be collected probably goes against their right to privacy and/or personal data protection rights; and for the albergue staff it means an unacceptable extra time/effort/investment in gathering the whole information, also making the possible other pilgrims waiting to check-in have to wait longer. And by the way, the information gathered must be kept by the establishment for 3 years!
You can read a little more in depth about the topic (in Spanish) in the website that some albergues and hotels have created to manage our complaint: https://sites.google.com/view/pau-plataforma-alojamientos-un/pau.
A campaign has been started to gather signatures to request the cancellation/modification of this new law. You can read about it and, if you feel like it, maybe sign in: https://www.change.org/p/control-de-viajeros-intolerable?signed=true
(Not sure if it will take signatures from non-Spanish or non-European citizens)
For those of you not familiar with Spanish, I'm sure you can translate the content of those pages using google translate or a similar site/app.
Thanks for reading!
Um...so after clicking though to the Spanish government site, it appears that home address is now required along with passport details. How is that different than what hotels require in other countries? I'm used to having to provide a passport or government issued identification along with contact details when checking into a hotel, how is this different, more burdensome, or cause for alarm?
Link to Spanish government site, traveler data required is about halfway down https://www.boe.es/diario_boe/txt.php?id=BOE-A-2021-17461
No.Have you, as a pilgrim checking-in into an albergue/hostel/hotel in Spain ever felt it weird that you were asked to fill in a form with some basic personal information,
If you want to drum up some support it would be helpful to list just what that extra information is rather than just using bigger, bold letters. It seems what's new is a home address and the travellers' relationship if a minor is involved? A home address is a PITA but I can understand fully wanting to identify child/adult relationships.A LOT MORE INFORMATION will have to be collected from the travellers
Again, if you'd like support it would be helpful to point out how my privacy is being violated.From the traveller's point of view the data that will now have to be collected probably goes against their right to privacy and/or personal data protection rights
Now that is interesting!the information gathered must be kept by the establishment for 3 years!
And that is worrying. It seems to be suggesting that my IBAN (bank account number) will be stored (along with all my other information) for three years at every place I stay in? That does sound draconian and more than a little risky.Además, se exigen datos financieros como tipo de pago (efectivo, tarjeta de crédito, plataforma de pago, transferencia...), tipo de tarjeta y número, IBAN cuenta bancaria, solución de pago por móvil, titular del medio de pago, fecha de caducidad de la tarjeta y fecha del pago. Se incrementa también en el epígrafe de datos del contrato el número de referencia, fecha y firmas.
That's standard procedure in some campsites that I have stayed at in Spain. I imagine it will become more common.For the hospi, I can only suggest we ask incoming pilgrims to write this information themselves on a separate piece of paper while we write down the other details in the old way.
If that's all it is then there should be no problem but......As for the financial details, the law only requires details of the method actually used to pay (e.g. card number), information which hotels would have anyway.
Is taken from the link to the actual legislation.d) Datos del pago.
– Tipo (efectivo, tarjeta de crédito, plataforma de pago, transferencia...).
– Identificación del medio de pago: tipo de tarjeta y número, IBAN cuenta bancaria, solución de pago por móvil, otros.
– Titular del medio de pago
– Fecha de caducidad de la tarjeta.
– Fecha del pago.
These are particularly intrusive.Full address.
Fixed telephone.
Mobile phone.
Email.
What Juanma is saying is absolutely correct, this will make the registering process a lot more time-consuming and onerous. Previously, the hospi could copy the relevant info from the ID document (or page 1 of the credencial) into an A4 ledger book whilst chatting to the new arrival. Now we need to record full contact details (unverifiable) as well: home postal address, email and phone numbers for every pilgrim. This will take long enough when hospi and pilgrim speak the same language, let alone when there is a language barrier - if you don't believe me, try dictating that information to a friend and timing it.
For the hospi, I can only suggest we ask incoming pilgrims to write this information themselves on a separate piece of paper while we write down the other details in the old way. We can keep the pieces of paper in a special box and leave the authorities to sort them out if they want. Some establishments may start producing forms for incomers to fill in.
As for the financial details, the law only requires details of the method actually used to pay (e.g. card number), information which hotels would have anyway.
Incidentally, in no albergue I have worked in have the police ever asked to see this information, though they probably do a visual check once a year or so and we certainly did not have to supply the information daily to the police. I suspect they only need to look when they are trying to trace a missing or wanted person.
Pre-printed forms are probably the way to go. Pilgrims could fill them in as they wait if there is a queue to register. How the local authorities would deal with stacks of unsorted forms is not our problem.I have twice volunteered as a hospi: 2002 and 2004.
Not once did police ask to see ledger.
If I were volunteering now, I would have question and answer forms in several languages for pilgrims to complete.
That would quicken check-in time and help with possible language barriers.
Or, I suppose that the hospitaleros could copy that information into a book after the pilgrims have registered.Pre-printed forms are probably the way to go. Pilgrims could fill them in as they wait if there is a queue to register. How the local authorities would deal with stacks of unsorted forms is not our problem.
Indeed, this incident described in a recent New Times article is not the reason for Royal Decret 933/2021. Note the year in the title: the law was published on October 2021; the obligation to communicate data of guests in hotels and similar to the authorities is in effect since 2 January 2023 - see quote below. It is just that we here on the forum hear about it only now.I am not saying this recent act is the reason why more information is being requested
El presente real decreto entrará en vigor a los seis meses de su publicación en el «Boletín Oficial del Estado». No obstante, las previsiones relativas a las obligaciones de comunicación producirán efectos a partir del 2 de enero de 2023.
Dado en Madrid, el 26 de octubre de 2021.
No.
Such information is common in many different countries
My understanding is that when I pay with a card currently the business is simply facilitating a transaction between my bank and theirs - they have no real useful information with which to carry out fraud. (Unless anyone is using the old "slide and paper" readers.) Now my name, address, IBAN, card number, date of expiry will all be held by the business?
By the way, the information is remitted to the Police daily and they do act upon it. I met a poor Dutchman over the summer who was about to be raided for the fourth time by the Police because he happened to share the same name and approximate age as a wanted Belgian criminal!
Yes I read that and as I said it is no more onerous than required in other hotels. The only key difference I see between prior data collection and now is a home address, a phone number, and an email address.
Everywhere I stayed in 2021 copied my passport and requested a phone number.
I'm sorry you feel this will make your life more difficult.
For the hospi, I can only suggest we ask incoming pilgrims to write this information themselves on a separate piece of paper while we write down the other details in the old way. We can keep the pieces of paper in a special box and leave the authorities to sort them out if they want. Some establishments may start producing forms for incomers to fill in.
As for the financial details, the law only requires details of the method actually used to pay (e.g. card number), information which hotels would have anyway.
Hm. The storage worries me, as I strongly suspect that most private establishments do not have sufficiently strong cybersecurity to protect my info for 3 years...nor the ability to truly wipe the data afterwards.
Also...I don't have a fixed phone number. More and more people these days don't. Therein lies a bit of a quandary...
Not once did police ask to see ledger.
@Juanma
I think you will find that you receive more support if you focus on the impact for the traveller and not yourself. This is a forum for all things Camino related - very few members are in your shoes, but many, many are in walking shoes going place to place.
As an example, dismissing the situation where the security is breached because you have insurance to cover that does not inspire me - who is potentially defrauded, without the use of banking and facing into stress and expense to get back in control - with a warm and fuzzy feeling.
From my inexpert position I cannot see how this law is compatible with EU data storage and processing laws.
Since you asked, and just as personal / general information:I started my message asking if you found it weird that blablabla because, as a hospi, I get shocked pilgrims every day asking why we collect all this info, and why in some other places they had stayed at it hadn't been done and here I was asking for it. It certainly must be done in every place a traveller stays for a night
Well ... Would you know whether they don't have to submit their records to the national police / Guardia Civil because they don't have a computer or do they not have a computer because they don't want one and don't need one and benefit from some kind of exemption and merely have to keep written records at the albergue?I have never worked at an albergue where there was a computer and some did not even have a telephone so paper/pen or pencil is the only option to record data in some locations. These are simple locations that don't take reservations so no need for additional technology.
Juanma also mentions bank account information or credit card details. I personally wouldn't want that information on my credential nor give it to someone at an albergue who has to keep the info on file for three yearsI shall put all that information onto the front page of my credential. A quick mobile phone photograph would then surely be sufficient for record keeping purposes.
I frequently scan stuff using my mobile phone camera.
I've had a look and not impressed however it is what it is. I don't believe any number of signatures from foreign peregrinos would sway the Spanish government. My Camino reinforced the 'let it go' attitude that keeps my life simpler and happier. I'm walking again this year and these new rules won't impact my pleasure. Just my own outlook. Buen CaminoHi every one. Have you, as a pilgrim checking-in into an albergue/hostel/hotel in Spain ever felt it weird that you were asked to fill in a form with some basic personal information, and/or have been asked to sign on the screen of a mobile device (phone, tablet...) after the Reception staff had scanned your passport or ID with that same device?
This is due to the Spanish law having required, until now, that all travellers staying in any kind of lodging in Spain, have their basic data collected and then, over the night, this information sent to the Police or Guardia Civil.
Right now a new law has been approved, starting February 2023, for which A LOT MORE INFORMATION will have to be collected from the travellers, making the whole process a lot slower for both the hospitalero and the pilgrim, and a lot more intruding into the pilgrim's personal space.
From the traveller's point of view the data that will now have to be collected probably goes against their right to privacy and/or personal data protection rights; and for the albergue staff it means an unacceptable extra time/effort/investment in gathering the whole information, also making the possible other pilgrims waiting to check-in have to wait longer. And by the way, the information gathered must be kept by the establishment for 3 years!
You can read a little more in depth about the topic (in Spanish) in the website that some albergues and hotels have created to manage our complaint: https://sites.google.com/view/pau-plataforma-alojamientos-un/pau.
A campaign has been started to gather signatures to request the cancellation/modification of this new law. You can read about it and, if you feel like it, maybe sign in: https://www.change.org/p/control-de-viajeros-intolerable?signed=true
(Not sure if it will take signatures from non-Spanish or non-European citizens)
For those of you not familiar with Spanish, I'm sure you can translate the content of those pages using google translate or a similar site/app.
Thanks for reading!
No good Mike, we know where you live.I will just continue to give the wrong info as I have always done. No way will I ever tell a stranger where Iive when I am clearly away from home.
Hi every one. Have you, as a pilgrim checking-in into an albergue/hostel/hotel in Spain ever felt it weird that you were asked to fill in a form with some basic personal information, and/or have been asked to sign on the screen of a mobile device (phone, tablet...) after the Reception staff had scanned your passport or ID with that same device?
This is due to the Spanish law having required, until now, that all travellers staying in any kind of lodging in Spain, have their basic data collected and then, over the night, this information sent to the Police or Guardia Civil.
Right now a new law has been approved, starting February 2023, for which A LOT MORE INFORMATION will have to be collected from the travellers, making the whole process a lot slower for both the hospitalero and the pilgrim, and a lot more intruding into the pilgrim's personal space.
From the traveller's point of view the data that will now have to be collected probably goes against their right to privacy and/or personal data protection rights; and for the albergue staff it means an unacceptable extra time/effort/investment in gathering the whole information, also making the possible other pilgrims waiting to check-in have to wait longer. And by the way, the information gathered must be kept by the establishment for 3 years!
You can read a little more in depth about the topic (in Spanish) in the website that some albergues and hotels have created to manage our complaint: https://sites.google.com/view/pau-plataforma-alojamientos-un/pau.
A campaign has been started to gather signatures to request the cancellation/modification of this new law. You can read about it and, if you feel like it, maybe sign in: https://www.change.org/p/control-de-viajeros-intolerable?signed=true
(Not sure if it will take signatures from non-Spanish or non-European citizens)
For those of you not familiar with Spanish, I'm sure you can translate the content of those pages using google translate or a similar site/app.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks! I was wondering and didn't have time to translate. For the most part - it is pretty basic information. I think the above would be the "annoying" questions for me. And really not for the reasons you might think.j) Place of habitual residence.
- Full address.
k) Fixed telephone.
i) Email.
o) Relationship of kinship between the travelers (in the event that one is a minor).
I don't have official knowledge of the law, but perhaps @Rebekah Scott will reply as she organizes volunteers for FICS, one of the organizations that operates some of the albergues that are not private. My husband said that when he worked in 2021 during COVID he also had to collect phone and email information for possible contact tracing, but we did not have to do that last summer and did not do it before COVID. I do know there was a computer in the office at Zamora when we were there in 2017, but it was broken and looked to be quite old with a CRT monitor.Well ... Would you know whether they don't have to submit their records to the national police / Guardia Civil because they don't have a computer or do they not have a computer because they don't want one and don't need one and benefit from some kind of exemption and merely have to keep written records at the albergue?
You'll also want to provide a check out ledger for pilgrims to fill out, if check in and check out times are required, as indicated. I'm not sure how feasible it will be to enforce the recording of check out times in such a ledger.What Juanma is saying is absolutely correct, this will make the registering process a lot more time-consuming and onerous. Previously, the hospi could copy the relevant info from the ID document (or page 1 of the credencial) into an A4 ledger book whilst chatting to the new arrival. Now we need to record full contact details (unverifiable) as well: home postal address, email and phone numbers for every pilgrim. This will take long enough when hospi and pilgrim speak the same language, let alone when there is a language barrier - if you don't believe me, try dictating that information to a friend and timing it.
For the hospi, I can only suggest we ask incoming pilgrims to write this information themselves on a separate piece of paper while we write down the other details in the old way. We can keep the pieces of paper in a special box and leave the authorities to sort them out if they want. Some establishments may start producing forms for incomers to fill in.
As for the financial details, the law only requires details of the method actually used to pay (e.g. card number), information which hotels would have anyway.
Incidentally, in no albergue I have worked in have the police ever asked to see this information, though they probably do a visual check once a year or so and we certainly did not have to supply the information daily to the police. I suspect they only need to look when they are trying to trace a missing or wanted person.
That's true, but things affecting albergues and hospitaleros/as are very definitely Camino-related. A number of the forum members have served or regularly serve as hospitaleros/as, and many that don't are grateful to those who volunteer in this capacity and are quite ready to support things that would make things easier, or at least, prevent increasing difficulties for them.@Juanma
I think you will find that you receive more support if you focus on the impact for the traveller and not yourself. This is a forum for all things Camino related - very few members are in your shoes, but many, many are in walking shoes going place to place.
It really doesn't matter what address you use, they won't check. Loads of people including me don't have a landline, so can't imagine that would be an issue.Address - well if I am writing it myself it isn't problematic, but telling someone my address would be. Even in the US people struggle with how confusing my address is haha.
Fixed phone - well - hopefully they either let you skip that or write the mobile number for both - as fixed phones are less and less common (at least - in the US)
email - again - if I am writing it - no problem. Verbally relaying - problem.
If some staff or volunteer would want to take a photo of my passport or ID card, perhaps even with their own private mobile phone, "to save time now and make things easier and to enter the data into the obligatory guest register at a later time" and if I were in the mood, I would question their competence and refuse to let them do so. And I am not joking.
Lots of places take a photocopy. It seems to be standard practice in many countries.And absolutely right that you are not joking!
No way that anyone can make a pic of my ID with a cellphone.
They can write it down or nada.
If they keep insisting then I will find another place.
I am one of the people at work responsible for GDPR and it always surprises me how naive people can be in current society about their info and privacy.
Frankly, I don't care in the context of this thread what may or may be standard practice in many countries. If it is not allowed under the laws of an EU country - we are talking GDPR and assorted national law here - to make a photocopy or take a photo of my ID card or passport then it's not allowed and I won't agree to it. As I said, I am not sure about Spain. I am certain about Germany. I checked France and tried to find reliable websites. It appears that it is not allowed according to CNIL:Lots of places take a photocopy. It seems to be standard practice in many countries.
In Spain almost every hotel does it. It's also happened to me in Bulgaria.Frankly, I don't care in the context of this thread what may or may be standard practice in many countries. If it is not allowed under the laws of an EU country - we are talking GDPR and assorted national law here - to make a photocopy or take a photo of my ID card or passport then it's not allowed and I won't agree to it. As I said, I am not sure about Spain. I am certain about Germany. I checked France and tried to find reliable websites. It appears that it is not allowed according to CNIL:
Question: Un hôtelier peut-il faire une copie de ma pièce d'identité ?Answer: Non.I also feel that volunteer hospitaleros should not go by what they read on social media but ought to be properly informed about their duties by those who are the proprietors of their albergue which, as far as I understand it, are parishes and municipalities in Spain.
k) Fixed telephone.
They certainly ought, unfortunately they very often are not. One reason the issue has been flagged on the forum is so that future hospis are forewarned. It remains to be seen what actual impact the change will have. I suspect we will know in the next few weeks. Mainly it will affect albergues and hotels rather than pilgrims, though having said that, quite a few members of the forum work as hospis. But at least we now know about the change.I also feel that volunteer hospitaleros should not go by what they read on social media but ought to be properly informed about their duties by those who are the proprietors of their albergue which, as far as I understand it, are parishes and municipalities in Spain.
En todo caso, se incluyen las siguientes actividades:
Las llevadas a cabo por establecimientos comerciales abiertos al público integrados en este sector conforme a la normativa dictada por la administración competente. Se incluyen dentro de este concepto los hoteles, hostales, pensiones, casas de huéspedes, establecimientos de turismo rural o análogos.
This is exactly what I was about to post. Rules and regulations for donativos (virtually none) are not the same as for albergue turisticos, I know first-hand as I had one during the Corona period and have volunteered many times in donativos.I think it is worth pointing out that it is not even super clear whether those albergues that typically make use of volunteer hospitaleros are even affected or only those pilgrim albergues that are registered as albergues turisticos. The ministry of the interior who are the boss of the police forces mentions commercial establishments and analogos but what’s analog in this context (see below).
I would certainly wait before I’d rush to design multilingual information leaflets and print registration forms for pilgrims. A silver lining is the fact that volunteer albergues don’t take credit cards so their hospitaleros will be kept away from manually copying and storing my credit card details for three years … I must say that, for the first time, I am considering getting a separate credit card for travelling to Spain that I terminate after my return home …
Of course the way to avoid your credit card details being stored is simply to pay cash everywhere.I must say that, for the first time, I am considering getting a separate credit card for travelling to Spain that I terminate after my return home …
It’s not about storage of details as such in this thread. It’s about the (potential / presumed) collecting and storing of so many personal details in the same place, namely in the same database on an IT system and, in particular and possibly, in a book that is lying around and accessible to many different people from many different places and backgrounds over the course of 3 years in some of the Camino albergues.Of course the way to avoid your credit card details being stored is simply to pay cash everywhere.
In the USA, one-simply can ask for a new card and it arrives in a few days.Of course the way to avoid your credit card details being stored is simply to pay cash everywhere
Yes, but if you pay cash, you don't have to provide any of it!It’s not about storage of details as such in this thread. It’s about the (potential / presumed) collecting and storing of so many personal details in the same place, namely in the same database on an IT system and, in particular and possibly, in a book that is lying around and accessible to many different people from many different places and backgrounds over the course of 3 years in some of the Camino albergues.
As pointed out in post #26 about what is changing:
About the payment with card: if a pilgrim wants to pay with card in my albergue, I do not get to keep the card's details: I simply charge from the card with my device and that's it. I never get hold of any of the card's info such as its number, holder's name or expiry date. Now with this new regulation, I will have to collect those details!
It's not just about the card details. They want your account number (along with your address and all your contact details) and that means they can apply for other services and set up a debit on your account.:
In the USA, one-simply can ask for a new card and it arrives in a few days.
So if you are worried about creditcard data improperly being recorded on paper, simply replace it when you return home. You can also set up your CC so that the company notifies you whenever a purchase is made on the card. So you would be aware if someone used your CC info while walking.
I don’t see the need to carry much cash!
I make reservations through booking.com. While the establishments do askIt's not just about the card details. They want your account number (along with your address and all your contact details) and that means they can apply for other services and set up a debit on your account.
Usually with booking.com I am asked for an address. Often I am asked to provide my address again at check-in. The new legislation says they will ask not only for your address and contact details but also your bank account number.I make reservations through booking.com. While the establishments do ask
for my passport and credit card (of course) and sometimes a zip code but not an address, (I have never been asked for address). Anyone using a CC anywhere should monitor there accounts! If you feel Cash is better and a safer(?) way to travel on a Camino… then that is best for you, of course.
I don’t mean in anyway to minimize your concern about data, and have already signed the petition on change.org
Just FYI that can cause all kinds of problems if you ever lose your phone. Been there, done that and it's not funThe mobile number can serve as a second security check when you sign in
Only if the establishment allows it. Not every establishment does.You can also pay them directly so you don’t have to show your credit card at the accommodation just your ID.
What you're missing is the post that started this discussion that says that the rules are changing and more information will need to be collected by people providing accommodations including, among other things: fixed and mobile phone numbers, email address, home address, number of people in the party and the relationship between them (if any are minors), check in and check out dates and times, and potentially credit card information. The concern is that this will be more time and effort for hospitaleros/as and for pilgrims, as well as opening up privacy issues.Am I missing something. I haven't walked since 2018 but I dont recall ever having to do anything other than show my passport and get my credencial stamped. Only place I had a problem was in Bibao where they did not initially accept my passport card as a passport. Because my fellow Irish people in front had a passport book, the girl could not get her head around me being different. Not doubting the changes but doubting the implementation of past protocols
Many many establishments, though not all, allow booking to collect, especially since Covid-19. But there are some that don’t.Just FYI that can cause all kinds of problems if you ever lose your phone. Been there, done that and it's not fun
Only if the establishment allows it. Not every establishment does.
With some you can pay via Booking.
With some they use the card as a "holder" for the reservation but you pay the establishment directly
With some you pay directly.
Yes, I don't know about the US but in the UK cheques are printed with your account number and sort code.We did?!I never had to do that when paying with a check (cheque) to make purchases years ago in the US unless I was applying for a mortgage, or for some folks, a car loan.
You did not but I and many others did when we travelled to and stayed in a foreign country like Spain. Until 2002 when the Eurocheque system was abolished - a sad day at the time -, I paid for purchases in shops by check plus ec-card in Spain, France, UK, Benelux, Germany, Italy, and other European countries that belonged to the system. BTW, it had nothing to do with the EU or the euro. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocheque. Up to then I never used a credit card in Spain or elsewhere in countries in Europe or in the Mediterranean region. The only reason why I had a credit card: I got one for a trip to the USA in 1990 or so.We did?!I never had to do that when paying with a check (cheque) to make purchases years ago in the US unless I was applying for a mortgage, or for some folks, a car loan.
Yes, it is the same here. Our checks have our acct.# and our handwritten signature in them.Yes, I don't know about the US but in the UK cheques are printed with your account number and sort code.
if you have paid using a cc the number expiry date etc will already be recorded by the payment system.
I know there are a lot of people who don’t like to pay attention to what may seem like tiresome details. But if you have paid even a little bit of attention to @Juanma’s posts, and some of the more helpful responses, you will see that what is being proposed is a big change from what is currently asked for. To echo @David Tallan, this has nothing to do with what you have had to give in the past, no matter how many times you have been to Europe.
An article in the Pontevedra press, which documents a formal complaint against these new regulations by the hospitality industry of the area, details the changes.
Current regulations require 9 bits of information. Number of passport or identity document, date of issue, name, last name, sex, birthday, nationality and day you enter the establishment.
The new proposal requires 31 pieces of information. Name, first last name, second last name, sex, identity document number, number of “soporte del documento” (not sure what that is), type of document, nationality, birthdate, residence, complete address, town, country, phone number (both land liine and mobile), email address, number of travelers, relationship among travelers if one is underage, date and hour of entry, date and hour of departure.
The most concerning new requirements, in the view of the hospitality industry, have to do with the financial data being asked for— type of payment (cash, CC, bank transfer), type of CC and CC number, IBAN number of the bank account, mobile transfer (I’m guessing this refers to Venmo, Zelle,etc, name on the account used, expiration date of CC, date of payment.
Los hoteleros alertan del lastre que supone el nuevo sistema de registro de los clientes
El check-in pasa de incluir nueve datos a más de 30, entre ellos, la relación entre los usuarioswww.diariodepontevedra.es
Even if you are from the “who cares, I don’t have any privacy left anyway” segment of society, I would think that none of us would support the proposed requirement that the establishment write down our credit card number and keep it in their own files for three years!
No, if you're paying in cash, then the albergue/hotel would have to write "type of payment: cash", and no details of your credit card or bank account would be required at all; however, I'm not sure about the situation when you book online providing a credit card but then decide to pay cash once in the establishment. I guess since the actual payment has been done in cash, no financial data would be collected either, even if you did book online providing a credit card.It is inconceivable that on booking a room with a credit card, or paying in cash, I would also be asked for my bank details - but if one thinks back to the ‘paying by cheque’ days, we all handed over on a regular basis a document with our full bank details, a signature and a sample of our handwriting.
@peregrina2000 mentioned 31 pieces of information is to be collected. Even if a person pays in cash wouldn't there still be approx. 25 additional pieces of information they will be collecting?No, if you're paying in cash, then the albergue/hotel would have to write "type of payment: cash", and no details of your credit card or bank account would be required at all; however, I'm not sure about the situation when you book online providing a credit card but then decide to pay cash once in the establishment. I guess since the actual payment has been done in cash, no financial data would be collected either, even if you did book online providing a credit card.
Many categories will not be applicable to every traveller (not everyone has a landline phone, email address, mobile phone). You will be asked for your address, but there will be no way for anyone to verify it, so you can write what you like. Some only apply to groups (no of persons and relationship). These may be important for child-protection. Your arrival and departure time etc. are things that will no doubt be recorded by the hospitalero/a in accordance with policy, rather than actually tracking the movements of individuals.@peregrina2000 mentioned 31 pieces of information is to be collected. Even if a person pays in cash wouldn't there still be approx. 25 additional pieces of information they will be collecting?
Aw c’mon, let’s not pretend.I know there are a lot of people who don’t like to pay attention to what may seem like tiresome details. But if you have paid even a little bit of attention to @Juanma’s posts, and some of the more helpful responses, you will see that what is being proposed is a big change from what is currently asked for. To echo @David Tallan, this has nothing to do with what you have had to give in the past, no matter how many times you have been to Europe.
An article in the Pontevedra press, which documents a formal complaint against these new regulations by the hospitality industry of the area, details the changes.
Current regulations require 9 bits of information. Number of passport or identity document, date of issue, name, last name, sex, birthday, nationality and day you enter the establishment.
The new proposal requires 31 pieces of information. Name, first last name, second last name, sex, identity document number, number of “soporte del documento” (not sure what that is), type of document, nationality, birthdate, residence, complete address, town, country, phone number (both land liine and mobile), email address, number of travelers, relationship among travelers if one is underage, date and hour of entry, date and hour of departure.
The most concerning new requirements, in the view of the hospitality industry, have to do with the financial data being asked for— type of payment (cash, CC, bank transfer), type of CC and CC number, IBAN number of the bank account, mobile transfer (I’m guessing this refers to Venmo, Zelle,etc, name on the account used, expiration date of CC, date of payment.
Los hoteleros alertan del lastre que supone el nuevo sistema de registro de los clientes
El check-in pasa de incluir nueve datos a más de 30, entre ellos, la relación entre los usuarioswww.diariodepontevedra.es
Even if you are from the “who cares, I don’t have any privacy left anyway” segment of society, I would think that none of us would support the proposed requirement that the establishment write down our credit card number and keep it in their own files for three years!
Quite! It's all fairly standard stuff.Aw c’mon, let’s not pretend.
If current name = 2 data fields and future name = 3 data fields, are we going to die in a ditch for that?
wrt the financial information I remain to be convinced that there will be any requirement to record other than the means of payment for the service provided. In the case of a credit card, I have precisely no idea of the duration for which my details are currently recorded and no control over that, so a gallic shrug is the best I can muster.
There is nothing on the extended list - other than relationship to a minor - which I fail to recognise from countless hotel check-ins
We will all sleep more soundly in our beds because the bureaucratic machine will, when it gets around to it (and probably not outside working hours nor on public holidays) protect us from those potential assailants who are unexpectedly honest in providing accurate information when checking in to accommodation?It’s interesting reading the legislation and the underlying reason for the introduction of this change.
“At the present time, the greatest attacks on citizen security are carried out by both terrorist activity and organized crime, in both cases with a markedly transnational nature. In both cases, the logistics of accommodation and the acquisition or use of motor vehicles are particularly relevant in the modus operandi of criminals, the contracting of which is carried out today by countless means, including telematics, which provides greater privacy in those transactions.”
Working in the financial crime environment (which goes beyond financial transactions), most of this information is collected, collated and reported on (to regulators) with every transaction processed through a Bank. In Australia AUSTRAC is the said regulator.
Of all the things that would concern me is the need to retain the information for extended periods and the secure storage of that information. Particularly transactional fraud (at the low end) through to identity theft (at the top end) and/or unlawful tracking. I’d need to better understand the retention requirements and compliance regime.
This can be an onerous and in some instances impossible impost on small business and charities. That said, that shouldn’t be a reason for not collecting the information. Once reported maybe the opportunity is there to delete the information at the initiation level. But that’s jumping to solution’s when I don’t fully understand the process.
sadly we live in a world where these measures are necessary to protect us from the less than salubrious members of society.
So currently, I don’t think we in the USA andCanada use IBAN. Therefore we can leave that blank. Nor do some of us use mobile transfer,or have home lines. My point is there will be lots of blanks. Foreign address won’t be easy to check. When I return from my camino I obtain a new Credit card number. So I am not so sure about the concern about addresses. If you think you can’t be found online…think again. It is best to continually monitor your security and finances.I know there are a lot of people who don’t like to pay attention to what may seem like tiresome details. But if you have paid even a little bit of attention to @Juanma’s posts, and some of the more helpful responses, you will see that what is being proposed is a big change from what is currently asked for. To echo @David Tallan, this has nothing to do with what you have had to give in the past, no matter how many times you have been to Europe.
An article in the Pontevedra press, which documents a formal complaint against these new regulations by the hospitality industry of the area, details the changes.
Current regulations require 9 bits of information. Number of passport or identity document, date of issue, name, last name, sex, birthday, nationality and day you enter the establishment.
The new proposal requires 31 pieces of information. Name, first last name, second last name, sex, identity document number, number of “soporte del documento” (not sure what that is), type of document, nationality, birthdate, residence, complete address, town, country, phone number (both land liine and mobile), email address, number of travelers, relationship among travelers if one is underage, date and hour of entry, date and hour of departure.
The most concerning new requirements, in the view of the hospitality industry, have to do with the financial data being asked for— type of payment (cash, CC, bank transfer), type of CC and CC number, IBAN number of the bank account, mobile transfer (I’m guessing this refers to Venmo, Zelle,etc, name on the account used, expiration date of CC, date of payment.
Los hoteleros alertan del lastre que supone el nuevo sistema de registro de los clientes
El check-in pasa de incluir nueve datos a más de 30, entre ellos, la relación entre los usuarioswww.diariodepontevedra.es
Even if you are from the “who cares, I don’t have any privacy left anyway” segment of society, I would think that none of us would support the proposed requirement that the establishment write down our credit card number and keep it in their own files for three years!
So currently, I don’t think we in the USA andCanada use IBAN.
The legal text of Real Decreto 933/2021 says: Identificación del medio de pago: tipo de tarjeta y número, IBAN cuenta bancaria, solución de pago por móvil, otros.So currently, I don’t think we in the USA andCanada use IBAN.
Thank you. You’re doing a great job of explaining the situation very clearly.No, if you're paying in cash, then the albergue/hotel would have to write "type of payment: cash", and no details of your credit card or bank account would be required at all; however, I'm not sure about the situation when you book online providing a credit card but then decide to pay cash once in the establishment. I guess since the actual payment has been done in cash, no financial data would be collected either, even if you did book online providing a credit card.
[details deleted]A Godgle translated extract for anyone who enjoys that sort of thing:
3. Traveler data [to be collected]
For many years, Spain has required ALL abergues, hostels, hotels, AirBNB, and any other short-term rentals to submit some of that information to a database maintained by the Guardia Civil. When GDPR was passed, the way it was being done became illegal (in my non-lawyer's opinion) because they didn't bother to tell us (I was a hospitalero when GDPR became law) about the need to tell the pilgrim why we asked for it and to have them sign a document saying they understand the reason and agree to it. If they are increasing the scope of that database and still not informing hosts of such requirements, then it may indeed become a trigger for lawsuits. On the other hand, GDPR does have some exemptions. I am not sure whether a pilgrim's albergue is exempt.The cynic in me might think that much of the targeting of this regulation, and the consequent fuss, centres around AirBnB providers and their disinclination to visibility. Hoteliers will have scooped most of this from Berking.con and the ilk. I'll concede that it'll be another bit of tedium for the poor sod hospitalera/o who'll have to fill in the database though the cheerful monk at Sobrado tapped us each into his laptop with barely a hesitation in the flow of his chatter.
I also think there's a potential breach of at least two bits of European data protection legislation. Specifically over data retention and storage but as the regulation has been couched as a "National Insecurity" measure data protection is overridden
Not goodHi every one. Have you, as a pilgrim checking-in into an albergue/hostel/hotel in Spain ever felt it weird that you were asked to fill in a form with some basic personal information, and/or have been asked to sign on the screen of a mobile device (phone, tablet...) after the Reception staff had scanned your passport or ID with that same device?
This is due to the Spanish law having required, until now, that all travellers staying in any kind of lodging in Spain, have their basic data collected and then, over the night, this information sent to the Police or Guardia Civil.
Right now a new law has been approved, starting February 2023, for which A LOT MORE INFORMATION will have to be collected from the travellers, making the whole process a lot slower for both the hospitalero and the pilgrim, and a lot more intruding into the pilgrim's personal space.
From the traveller's point of view the data that will now have to be collected probably goes against their right to privacy and/or personal data protection rights; and for the albergue staff it means an unacceptable extra time/effort/investment in gathering the whole information, also making the possible other pilgrims waiting to check-in have to wait longer. And by the way, the information gathered must be kept by the establishment for 3 years!
You can read a little more in depth about the topic (in Spanish) in the website that some albergues and hotels have created to manage our complaint: https://sites.google.com/view/pau-plataforma-alojamientos-un/pau.
A campaign has been started to gather signatures to request the cancellation/modification of this new law. You can read about it and, if you feel like it, maybe sign in: https://www.change.org/p/control-de-viajeros-intolerable?signed=true
(Not sure if it will take signatures from non-Spanish or non-European citizens)
For those of you not familiar with Spanish, I'm sure you can translate the content of those pages using google translate or a similar site/app.
Thanks for reading!
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