Snoring. AARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!!

[Undermanager]

Snoring (another post ...)
After 4 days of seriously noisy snorers in albergues, I was getting increasingly drained during the day. At one point, I was thinking whether I can continue, whether I want to, or should have to, use hotels just to be able to sleep (and missing out on albergue life). Fortunately, I got a fabulous sleep on day 5, which reset the batteries. I also read in some Facebook sites recently about arguments and (almost) fights breaking out, when non-snorers had reached their limit with snorers, waking them up in frustration etc. But it got me thinking, whether the status quo of 'put up with snoring or use a hotel' is really the right approach, whether more can be done to reduce the problem.

1. If anyone is going to stay in an albergue, they need to buy the best ear plugs money can buy, test them in advance, and show tolerance towards snorers.

2. Snorers should not expect others to put up with their snoring, when there are things that they themselves should do. Doing nothing before starting a camino when they know they have a problem is simply selfish. Well before starting a camino (months before), they should be monitoring their snoring (there are plenty of apps about now). They should be trying out different 'solutions' so they reduce or eliminate their snoring, as well as seeking advice eg reduce alcohol etc. There are things about that can help, plus a visit to a doctor's or a sleep clinic can't hurt. This is in everyone's interests, including theirs.

3. I would like to see all albergues sell quality earplugs, as well as anti-snoring aids such as nasal straps, throat sprays etc and have them on display where possible. Albergues should also be required to think if there is anything more that they can do particular to their albergue.

4. I would like all camino guidebooks, info websites, tour websites etc to be contacted and encouraged to include an advice section in their guides, literature for both snorers and non-snorers.

Unreasonable?

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

No, not unreasonable, I think you’ve covered both sides rather well. Tolerance and steps to mitigate the problem.

 

[Corned Beef]

Look forward to the results of your campaign.

 

[Telelama]

Yea, you know, some don't snore until they've had some repeated, extremely heavy physical days, like a Camino that strains your body day-after-day.

Some may live alone and not be aware that they snore.

What's your recommendation for them? What should they do?

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Yea, you know, some don't snore until they've had some repeated, extremely heavy physical days, like a Camino that strains your body day-after-day.

Some may live alone and not be aware that they snore.

What's your recommendation for them? What should they do?

That’s only some, and the answers lie in @Undermanager post I think

 

[gerardcarey]

As a sometimes snorer, and one who has had his toe pulled on occasion, and who has investigated alleviation practices without permanent success, I would state as follows.
If you are going to stay in a hostel realize as a fact that snorers come with the territory, indeed expect there to be snorers.
If you find snorers a really serious problem go stay elsewhere.
Always use earplugs.
Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.
Regards
Gerars

 

[Peacemaker]

Maybe albergues could (where rooms are available) have snoring rooms and non-snoring rooms?

 

[Camino Chrissy]

If anyone is going to stay in an albergue, they need to buy the best ear plugs money can buy, test them in advance, and show tolerance towards snorers.

Bingo!...works for me. I also never hear the early riser bag rufflers and am surprised when I finally wake up and take my ear plugs out, how noisy the room actually is by then with everyone rushing around, packing up.

 

[Michael Casey]

As a sometimes snorer, and one who has had his toe pulled on occasion, and who has investigated alleviation practices without permanent success, I would state as follows.
If you are going to stay in a hostel realize as a fact that snorers come with the territory, indeed expect there to be snorers.
If you find snorers a really serious problem go stay elsewhere.
Always use earplugs.
Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.
Regards
Gerars

i don't think you understand what is is like to be listening to a scorer all night while you are trying to get some sleep, Firstly the roncador is asleep and will be freshened in the morning, you on the otherhand will have a tiring day ahead. I will try to avoid you for the following night.
I always use eraplugs and even at that some snorers are so bad that the noise gets through.
if you are one of these terrible snorers I suggest that you stay somewhere else and not to impose you condition on everyone else, its selfish

 

[VNwalking]

Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.

Because one person keeps a whole room of others up, that makes the non-snorers whingers when talking about trying to sleep?
Sorry, but no.

If you snore loudly and know you snore loudly please let people know ahead of time : the hospi, and other pilgrims. And please don't drink too much because it exacerbates the problem.

The rest of us can use earplugs or even noise canceling earbuds, but options are limited. Loud snoring gets through both of those, IME.

The scariest snorers are the ones with sleep apnea who don't know they have sleep apnea. I've lain awake literally waiting for a much liked fellow pilgrim to take his next (very loud) breath. It was torture. And I never knew if it would be taken wrong to talk to him about it, so never did.

 

[C clearly]

Maybe people should need to submit to a month-long sleep evaluation in order to get a credencial and use albergues. The Cathedral would set the standards, administer the program, and recover the cost from, well, someone. Alternatively, if albergues are expected to provide these extra services, they might as well all close down. That will solve the problem.

 

[Flog]

i don't think you understand what is is like to be listening to a scorer all night while you are trying to get some sleep,

From his post, I think he absolutely does.. and I think he's nailed it. If you want to sleep in luxury, don't choose pilgrim accommodation.

 

[VNwalking]

If you want to sleep in luxury, don't choose pilgrim accommodation.

True. But not everyone can afford pilgrim accommodation.

On the other hand if you know you snore and can afford a single room somewhere (in an albergue or otherwise), is it not a kindness to others not to knowingly impose your din on them?

 

[AR1965]

From his post, I think he absolutely does.. and I think he's nailed it. If you want to sleep in luxury, don't choose pilgrim accommodation.

There's a whole lot of grey area between "luxury" and a sleepless night caused by loud snoring. You're attempting to discredit the point by taking it to its ridiculous extreme.

 

[Homely]

As a sometimes snorer, and one who has had his toe pulled on occasion, and who has investigated alleviation practices without permanent success, I would state as follows.
If you are going to stay in a hostel realize as a fact that snorers come with the territory, indeed expect there to be snorers.
If you find snorers a really serious problem go stay elsewhere.
Always use earplugs.
Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.
Regards
Gerars

Snorers need their own dorm. I have been in dorms where one person is keeping the whole dorm awake.

 

[AR1965]

Snorers need their own dorm. I have been in dorms where one person is keeping the whole dorm awake.

Yup. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Yup. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few.

Are the snorers in the minority, then?

 

[VNwalking]

Are the snorers in the minority, then?

From sleeping in albergues I've learned most everyone snores a bit - relatively quietly - myself included. Loud snorers who can keep a roomful of people up are definitely in the minority.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

From sleeping in albergues I've learned most everyone snores a bit - relatively quietly - myself included. Loud snorers who can keep a roomful of people up are definitely in the minority.

All depends where you draw the line, I suppose.

 

[AR1965]

Are the snorers in the minority, then?

Loud ones are, yes.

 

[AR1965]

All depends where you draw the line, I suppose.

I draw it at suffering physically and mentally the next day from sleeplessness the night before. But that's just me.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Bingo!...works for me. I also never hear the early riser bag rufflers and am surprised when I finally wake up and take my ear plugs out, how noisy the room actually is by then with everyone rushing around, packing up.

I recently bought and successfully used noise-masking earphones on my all-too-brief walk on the Baztan (Bayonne to Pamplona) and the Frances (Pamplona to Logrono).
Comfortable, effective, and more cost effective than staying in hotel rooms. I live with a pretty high level of misophonia (some noises just enrage me -- things like people chewing with their mouths open, snoring; some noises make it impossible for me to think: flatware clattering on plates as though diners are trying to dig ditches...). At home I wear noise-cancelling headphones (not good for sleeping, and too heavy to carry on a camino).

So I found and recommend the attached noise-maskers, paired with an App like "white noise".

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0BJTFFSRJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was *shocked* when I had to run the white noise sound up to max to drown out a snorer in Villatuerte, but I was still able to sleep.

 

[John Sikora]

I'll take any thank yous in advance, since I snore like a buzz saw (witness my wife), for staying in private rooms and hotels

 

[DuncanG]

Bingo!...works for me. I also never hear the early riser bag rufflers and am surprised when I finally wake up and take my ear plugs out, how noisy the room actually is by then with everyone rushing around, packing up.

Bingo!...works for me. I also never hear the early riser bag rufflers and am surprised when I finally wake up and take my ear plugs out, how noisy the room actually is by then with everyone rushing around, packing up.

I totally agree. I was recommended wax earplugs and found them to be very quiet, also not as uncomfortable as foam earplugs on the pillow. As well, I took the advice of Marguerite, the wonderful Dutch volunteer at Gîte de la Porte Saint Jacques, who said that even if you are not sleeping, you are resting your body. I kept that in mind and felt more peaceful about not sleeping. And for me, from walking the Camino every day, my body felt more tired than my mind.

 

[Guateboston]

It is difficult to sleep with a snorer. Snoring is part of sleep for many. Most of us will snore sometimes. Some have a serious problem. A lot think they do not snore and they do sometimes. When you share a room with strangers some will snore. Is not an intentional thing, it is what happens when they sleep. In an albergue one time a man who knew he was a snorer warned us all and had with him extra ear plugs in case you did not have one. He went out of his way to try to not bother others. But again some have no idea they snore. The early riser also wakes everyone up, should there be different rooms for early risers? An albergue is a shared space that provides a bed to sleep. We do not chose our room companions for the night. In my opinion a shared room is a shared room and snorer, early riser, people that get up multiple times to go to the bathroom, people that talk in their sleep, etc can all be part of it. I understand it is difficult, one time even with music playing in my earphones I felt I was surrounded by snoring people and could hear them. I was tired the next day. You can form a group of fellow pilgrims that know they do not snore and book a room for 4,6 or 8 when available. I have done that. But I do not think is to be regulated by an albergue. I can sign a pledge that I do not snore on a regular basis but I am sure I could sometimes. Would I than be penalized for doing something I truly have no control over?

 

[Flog]

On the other hand if you know you snore and can afford a single room somewhere (in an albergue or otherwise), is it not a kindness to others not to knowingly impose your din on them?

Oh, this old debate again, already..

Lookit, you've said it yourself.. most of us will snore at some time, to some degree. Personally, I consciously try to sleep on my stomach or side and moderate alcohol consumption when sharing a room full of other people, out of respect. I also accept from the outset that when sharing such accomodation, I might or might not get a good night's sleep as I can't control the behaviour of others. If I want to be sure of a decent sleep (for an early flight or bus or something), then I'll usually look for a cheap room if possible.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Snorers should not expect others to put up with their snoring, when there are things that they themselves should do. Doing nothing before starting a camino when they know they have a problem is simply selfish.

This goes both ways, given that snoring is an involuntary natural phenomenon.

Those who are very aggressive towards snorers are more problem than solution.

There is a breathing technique to move beyond it, which is learn how to breathe in rhythm with the snorers ; then practice it until it becomes automatic.

It really does help !!

 

[skf321]

Yea, you know, some don't snore until they've had some repeated, extremely heavy physical days, like a Camino that strains your body day-after-day.

Some may live alone and not be aware that they snore.

What's your recommendation for them? What should they do?

There are phone apps that are designed for this, they record sound and will detect snoring. My neighbor used it to see if she needed to get a sleep study, as she was concerned she may have sleep apnea and lived alone. There are several of them, one is called Snore Lab.

 

[JabbaPapa]

i don't think you understand what is is like to be listening to a scorer all night while you are trying to get some sleep

THE absolute worst snorer I have ever encountered was my dad.

Do not project your own difficulties sleeping as something to blame others for.

 

[AidaYYC]

From his post, I think he absolutely does.. and I think he's nailed it. If you want to sleep in luxury, don't choose pilgrim accommodation.

BINGO!!!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Are the snorers in the minority, then?

Not in my experience.

I've found that in the Albergues, frequently those who complain most about snoring are snorers themselves.

 

[Buniontrotter]

As a sometimes snorer, and one who has had his toe pulled on occasion, and who has investigated alleviation practices without permanent success, I would state as follows.
If you are going to stay in a hostel realize as a fact that snorers come with the territory, indeed expect there to be snorers.
If you find snorers a really serious problem go stay elsewhere.
Always use earplugs.
Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.
Regards
Gerars

I find that a shocking answer and I think you should have your ear pulled for that reaction. Consideration should come from both sides, obviously you are not of that opinion.

 

[markie6]

Imagine the bed race if snorers had to sleep in separate accomodation ...

People chosing to keep me awake with their phone, drunken antics or turning on lights very early.... now that's something I struggle to put up with

People just gotta try and cope with pilgrim life a little better methinks

 

[C clearly]

From sleeping in albergues I've learned most everyone snores a bit - relatively quietly - myself included. Loud snorers who can keep a roomful of people up are definitely in the minority.

I draw it at suffering physically and mentally the next day from sleeplessness the night before.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of a few.

Let me elaborate a little on my suggestion post #11 above. The sleep evaluation needs to include a decibel and duration score for each pilgrim. The albergues will either have monitoring and ejection equipment to manage pilgrims, or they will have teams of psychologists and ethicists to evaluate the impacts and agree (in 10 minutes or less) who is in the "many", who is in the "few," and what exceptions should be made on compassionate or other grounds.

Putting aside my silliness and sarcasm, it is simply unworkable to establish snoring criteria for albergues.

 

[CWBuff]

This is not the first time the subject is brought up. Whether we all like it or not - there is a so-called geay area and there is no "proper" solution.
I snore and yes the first thing I've done is told folks (esp. those in bunks close to mine) that I do snore. But on a larger sense - so what? So now you know but what does that knowledge gets you? NADA! Yes you can use ear plugs if you have them but what if you don't? And snore as I might how many times I have been awoken by someone who snores more loudly than me?
Lets forget about snoring for a sec. What about "snoring from the other end"? Now not only you had (perhaps a very) loud sound but got a "whiff" of it as well....
What about anything else? I once stayed in albergue where 2 people decided to completely shut all the windows in the dorm. No A\C (as we all know is the case most of the time) and temps "cooled down" to a more balmy upper 30sC from the mid-40s during the day (OOOOH!) 3 times me and someone else got up and opened a window.... and in 3 seconds flat those other folks were "on it" and shut them down...
May be 2:00 o'clock in the morning is the time when someone decides to pull oout their left over sandwich that is laden with onions and garlic.
What about people with C-PAP? Maybe some older model is "noisy"....
And yes I've witnessed some folks "doing the deed" however quite they thought they were (or may be they didn't care)

I may not score points for saying this but IMHO (and others mentioned it as well) just accept the fact that you are in a communal room\setting so "almost anything goes". The prudency of "go get the private room" can be applied both ways equally but if it happens that neither the "offender" or "offended" comply - then unfortunately suck it up. Recon it simply goes with territory. Applies to me as well in any of the situation described above and most likely "and then some"

 

[TravellingMan22]

Let me elaborate a little on my suggestion post #11 above. The sleep evaluation needs to include a decibel and duration score for each pilgrim. The albergues will either have monitoring and ejection equipment to manage pilgrims, or they will have teams of psychologists and ethicists to evaluate the impacts and agree (in 10 minutes or less) who is in the "many", who is in the "few," and what exceptions should be made on compassionate or other grounds.

Putting aside my silliness and sarcasm, it is simply unworkable to establish snoring criteria for albergues.

Maybe we could have ‘ejector bunks’. Put all the snorers on the top bunks, and if they snore beyond a certain decibel, they get launched through a hole in the roof!

 

[AR1965]

This goes both ways, given that snoring is an involuntary natural phenomenon.

Those who are very aggressive towards snorers are more problem than solution.

There is a breathing technique to move beyond it, which is learn how to breathe in rhythm with the snorers ; then practice it until it becomes automatic.

It really does help !!

Stating (even strongly stating) that it bothers one is not aggression. Suggesting that snorers get a private room is not aggression. Expressing dismay over a poor night's sleep ahead of a full day of walking isn't aggression.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Consideration should come from both sides

Physical aggression against a sleeping pilgrim just because you are intolerant of snoring does not constitute "consideration".

 

[TravellingMan22]

This is not the first time the subject is brought up. Whether we all like it or not - there is a so-called geay area and there is no "proper" solution.
I snore and yes the first thing I've done is told folks (esp. those in bunks close to mine) that I do snore. But on a larger sense - so what? So now you know but what does that knowledge gets you? NADA! Yes you can use ear plugs if you have them but what if you don't? And snore as I might how many times I have been awoken by someone who snores more loudly than me?
Lets forget about snoring for a sec. What about "snoring from the other end"? Now not only you had (perhaps a very) loud sound but got a "whiff" of it as well....
What about anything else? I once stayed in albergue where 2 people decided to completely shut all the windows in the dorm. No A\C (as we all know is the case most of the time) and temps "cooled down" to a more balmy upper 30sC from the mid-40s during the day (OOOOH!) 3 times me and someone else got up and opened a window.... and in 3 seconds flat those other folks were "on it" and shut them down...
May be 2:00 o'clock in the morning is the time when someone decides to pull oout their left over sandwich that is laden with onions and garlic.
What about people with C-PAP? Maybe some older model is "noisy"....
And yes I've witnessed some folks "doing the deed" however quite they thought they were (or may be they didn't care)

I may not score points for saying this but IMHO (and others mentioned it as well) just accept the fact that you are in a communal room\setting so "almost anything goes". The prudency of "go get the private room" can be applied both ways equally but if it happens that neither the "offender" or "offended" comply - then unfortunately suck it up. Recon it simply goes with territory. Applies to me as well in any of the situation described above and most likely "and then some"

Indeed. I stay in a lot of dorms in my everyday life due to my lifestyle and trust me behaviour in ‘Camino dorms’ is a million times better then non Camino! I had a chap lean over a top bunk and be sick on my clothes once (non Camino)!

 

[JabbaPapa]

Suggesting that snorers get a private room is not aggression.

Of course it is.

 

[C clearly]

Maybe we could have ‘ejector bunks’. Put all the snorers on the top bunks, and if they snore beyond a certain decibel, they get launched through a hole in the roof!

That's the sort of thing I had in mind. You can join the oversight committee. But we'll need ethicists to help with the design of suitable ejection force and landing pad.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

That's the sort of thing I had in mind. You can join the oversight committee. But we'll need ethicists to help with the design of suitable ejection force and landing pad.

You need those really thick gym mats that you use when you do the Fosbury flop!

 

[melbmeg]

I do think snorers should try everything they can to fix it before they stay in shared rooms. I tape my mouth closed (which won’t work for those with blocked noses) and my husband who has a blocked nose wears a mouth device he bought on Amazon that pretty much stops him snoring. There are solutions out there if you can be bothered looking.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I tape my mouth closed

 

[bullingtonce]

As a sometimes snorer, and one who has had his toe pulled on occasion, and who has investigated alleviation practices without permanent success, I would state as follows.
If you are going to stay in a hostel realize as a fact that snorers come with the territory, indeed expect there to be snorers.
If you find snorers a really serious problem go stay elsewhere.
Always use earplugs.
Try, very hard, not to be a whinger.
Regards
Gerars

Well put. Snorers are part of life and part of the Camino. So deal with it or upgrade your accommodation. For many snorers, it is not something they can control so to get down on them is not appropriate especially when, for some, it is a medical/physical condition they can do nothing about. Chuck

 

[AR1965]

Of course it is.

Yeah no, it's not. If you think that's aggression, you've got bigger problems which cannot be solved here.

I posit that sleeping in a shared space if you know you are a snorer is aggression. One being a snorer doesn't supercede the rights of dozens of other people to get much needed rest.

 

[AR1965]

Well put. Snorers are part of life and part of the Camino. So deal with it or upgrade your accommodation. For many snorers, it is not something they can control so to get down on them is not appropriate especially when, for some, it is a medical/physical condition they can do nothing about. Chuck

If they know they are a snorer, then they are the ones who need to upgrade their accommodation. Not the people who they are keeping awake.

 

[Trekker One]

Two words: Private room.
Consider a pension or hotel where available.
I am a light sleeper myself and a good night's sleep is essential to me after my daily half marathon of walking.
Being sleep deprived really starts to put a damper on things after a few days.
I want to stay positive while on a Camino. Feeling grumpy due to lack of sleep doesn't help this.

 

[JulieandPeter]

My husband is a snorer. A very, very loud snorer. We learned after our first Camino experience to book private rooms unless there is absolutely nothing available.

Having said that, I have been sleeping with a snorer for 40 years. The first 18 or so years it kept me awake. I tried all the tricks to CHANGE HIS snoring, but nothing worked. I finally realized I had to change how I was handling it . . . I stopped focusing on the noise coming out of the sleeping person next to me (and my sleep envy ) and thought about something else. Something boring like trying to remember the names of the 50 US states. It may seem silly, but it works.

There are always going to be snorers sleeping in dorm rooms. You cannot change that, but you can choose not to focus on the noise and how you are letting it keep you awake. Try it, you might be pleasantly surprised how easy it is to train yourself not to be bothered by snoring.

 

[trecile]

Maybe albergues could (where rooms are available) have snoring rooms and non-snoring rooms?

I guarantee that you would find snorers who swear that they never snore in the non-snoring dorm.

 

[VNwalking]

Of course it is.

Really?

For many snorers, it is not something they can control

I'll say it again in case you missed it.
No, you can't control the snoring.

That's true, and a given.

But:
If you know you snore loudly, and
if you can afford a single room,
Then it is a kindness to not impose your din on the rest of us.

If you can't afford a single room, that doesn't apply.
If you don't know you snore loudly that doesn't apply.

Not to get all huffy and defensive when people express distress when a whole dorm room's been kept awake by a deeply sleeping person with loud snoring.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Yeah no, it's not. If you think that's aggression, you've got bigger problems which cannot be solved here.

I posit that sleeping in a shared space if you know you are a snorer is aggression. One being a snorer doesn't supercede the rights of dozens of other people to get much needed rest.

Nor does being intolerant and unwilling to learn how to deal with your own sleeping difficulties.

Demanding that others pay extra €€€ for your own personal convenience is aggressive.

And BTW just to be crystal clear I am not a snorer.

 

[Mananath]

i don't think you understand what is is like to be listening to a scorer all night while you are trying to get some sleep, Firstly the roncador is asleep and will be freshened in the morning, you on the otherhand will have a tiring day ahead. I will try to avoid you for the following night.
I always use eraplugs and even at that some snorers are so bad that the noise gets through.
if you are one of these terrible snorers I suggest that you stay somewhere else and not to impose you condition on everyone else, its selfish

Nothing worse than seeing a well rested snorer in the morning after you have been up all night cursing them.

 

[Mananath]

I recently bought and successfully used noise-masking earphones on my all-too-brief walk on the Baztan (Bayonne to Pamplona) and the Frances (Pamplona to Logrono).
Comfortable, effective, and more cost effective than staying in hotel rooms. I live with a pretty high level of misophonia (some noises just enrage me -- things like people chewing with their mouths open, snoring; some noises make it impossible for me to think: flatware clattering on plates as though diners are trying to dig ditches...). At home I wear noise-cancelling headphones (not good for sleeping, and too heavy to carry on a camino).

So I found and recommend the attached noise-maskers, paired with an App like "white noise".

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0BJTFFSRJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I was *shocked* when I had to run the white noise sound up to max to drown out a snorer in Villatuerte, but I was still able to sleep.

These.are great. I got them last year for the Norte and while I didn't come across many snorers I did find that when I did the noise blockers worked perfectly. I used the brown noise setting and it seemed to be just the right pitch to counter out snoring but not other things,.like alarms etc.

 

[LTfit]

3. I would like to see all albergues sell quality earplugs, as well as anti-snoring aids such as nasal straps, throat sprays etc and have them on display where possible. Albergues should also be required to think if there is anything more that they can do particular to their albergue.

I first thought that this was written tongue-in-cheek. You can't truly expect albergue owners or a hospitalero to offer these items for sale. They are not a store. This is your problem, not theirs. If you find them essential take them yourself, just as you would take soap, shampoo, toothpaste etc.

4. I would like all camino guidebooks, info websites, tour websites etc to be contacted and encouraged to include an advice section in their guides, literature for both snorers and non-snorers.

Unreasonable?

Once again, it's your responsibility to be well informed before setting out on the Camino. But more importantly, it would appear logical, to me at least, that by sleeping in a dorm you most likely will encounter snorers. That's life.

I've been walking Caminos for 14 years and never sleep well. Never.
Obviously the advantages outweigh the disadvantages otherwise I would stop.

So, no, I don't think your comments are reasonable.

 

[Perambulating Griffin]

Off side a little bit, but I have wondered often enough how much of the touted spiritual enlightenment is a consequence of days and days of excessive physical effort and night after night of sleep deprivation. In this, the camino as it is done now is not unlike the conditions of a cult -- it is missing only the pyramid structure leading to a self-proclaimed messiah figure, but if one were to appear, I'd not be surprised to see the sleep-deprived, newly spiritual crowd ripe for picking.

 

[anoldfireman]

i don't think you understand what is is like to be listening to a scorer all night while you are trying to get some sleep, Firstly the roncador is asleep and will be freshened in the morning, you on the otherhand will have a tiring day ahead. I will try to avoid you for the following night.
I always use eraplugs and even at that some snorers are so bad that the noise gets through.
if you are one of these terrible snorers I suggest that you stay somewhere else and not to impose you condition on everyone else, its selfish

Completely disagree- there are people who have medical conditions and severe obstructive sleep apnea. You are saying the disabled ones who have spent thousands on medical procedures and permanently snore should be segregated or banished. So if someone with a bad knee who may bump into your bed should be banished also?
Ssounds like you are healthy and do not feel responsible for your own situation- have you used silicone swimming ear plugs? Have you trained yourself with a few weeks of snoring on a speaker next to your bed. Obviously you have not been in the military bunking with 74 others in a small dorm or bunker.
I wonder what they did 150 years ago- I assume that someone just bunked under a tree as they were on a pilgrimage not a vacation.

 

[jpflavin1]

Snoring (another post ...)
After 4 days of seriously noisy snorers in albergues, I was getting increasingly drained during the day. At one point, I was thinking whether I can continue, whether I want to, or should have to, use hotels just to be able to sleep (and missing out on albergue life). Fortunately, I got a fabulous sleep on day 5, which reset the batteries. I also read in some Facebook sites recently about arguments and (almost) fights breaking out, when non-snorers had reached their limit with snorers, waking them up in frustration etc. But it got me thinking, whether the status quo of 'put up with snoring or use a hotel' is really the right approach, whether more can be done to reduce the problem.

1. If anyone is going to stay in an albergue, they need to buy the best ear plugs money can buy, test them in advance, and show tolerance towards snorers.

2. Snorers should not expect others to put up with their snoring, when there are things that they themselves should do. Doing nothing before starting a camino when they know they have a problem is simply selfish. Well before starting a camino (months before), they should be monitoring their snoring (there are plenty of apps about now). They should be trying out different 'solutions' so they reduce or eliminate their snoring, as well as seeking advice eg reduce alcohol etc. There are things about that can help, plus a visit to a doctor's or a sleep clinic can't hurt. This is in everyone's interests, including theirs.

3. I would like to see all albergues sell quality earplugs, as well as anti-snoring aids such as nasal straps, throat sprays etc and have them on display where possible. Albergues should also be required to think if there is anything more that they can do particular to their albergue.

4. I would like all camino guidebooks, info websites, tour websites etc to be contacted and encouraged to include an advice section in their guides, literature for both snorers and non-snorers.

Unreasonable?

Yes.

If you have to or want to stay in Albergues on heavily traversed Camino's (CF,CP AND CN) snoring will be an issue. Another issue is open or closed windows? Early risers making noise putting gear together?

Stay in hotels or Private Albergues or walk less traveled Camino's.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

If you're signing up to sleep in a room with 5-20 other people for 30+ days, bank on snoring happening. It's your job to figure out if you can deal with this. If you cannot deal, and if earplugs don't work for you (some folks have inner ear issues), book private accommodations, or don't go on a camino. Your requests are about you wanting to control others and your surrounding environment, battles you'll rarely win. Demanding that guidebooks to be rewritten and albergues stock up on "snoring accoutrements" is silly. Take responsibility for yourself.

FWIW, Mack's earplugs are the only things that block out noise. I stock up on 3 boxes before each camino. Each pair lasts a few nights, and it's always nice to carry extras to hand out to fellow pilgrims.

 

[VNwalking]

Yes to:
Taking responsibility for oneself;
Having realistic expectations;

But I don't completely understand the one-way street here. Loud snorers can't control that. But if I were in that boat, and could afford it, I'd happily book single rooms, just out of kindness.

Can't both sides of this argument give a little rather than accommodation being all from one side or the other?

 

[C clearly]

Can't both sides of this argument give a little

Of course - nice people should be considerate of others. IF you know you snore, IF you are a considerate person, IF you can afford it, IF circumstances align, you likely would get a private room. But the premise of the OP was unbalanced and unworkable. As you have often pointed out, we can control our own behaviour but not someone else's.

 

[AR1965]

Nor does being intolerant and unwilling to learn how to deal with your own sleeping difficulties.

Demanding that others pay extra €€€ for your own personal convenience is aggressive.

And BTW just to be crystal clear I am not a snorer.

A decent night's sleep is a completely reasonable expectation.

Suggesting is not the same as demanding. You are attempting to discredit that point by taking it to its ridiculous extreme.

When someone is awoken by loud snoring, that doesn't mean they have sleep difficulties. It means that that another person is snoring loudly.

 

[Tandem Graham]

I am a light sleeper and frequently disturbed by snorers and other nocturnal noises. So I pack earplugs and I use them whenever I am in shared dorms. They are not 100% effective but they help.
I occasionally seek out a private room, just to guarantee a decent night's sleep once a week or thereabouts.
I accept that my sensitivity to snoring is my problem.
I do my best not to get 'het up' about snoring, because that would make it more difficult to get to sleep. If you hear noises from me, it's possibly a suppressed chuckle of disbelief at an impressive night time symphony!
I prefer to keep staying in communal rooms because it's a hardship I associate with pilgrimage, just like I prefer to walk or cycle rather than take a bus or an Uber. It's not supposed to be 4 star comfort.
A corollary of "It's your Camino; do it your way" could be '"Don't tell others (even snorers) how to do their Caminos"!

 

[AR1965]

Yes to:
Taking responsibility for oneself;
Having realistic expectations;

But I don't completely understand the one-way street here. Loud snorers can't control that. But if I were in that boat, and could afford it, I'd happily book single rooms, just out of kindness.

Can't both sides of this argument give a little rather than accommodation being all from one side or the other?

Non-snorers "give" in terms of bringing earplugs. A reasonable request. That said, one shouldn't be expected to "give" on the reasonable expectation of being well rested for the next day.

 

[truenorthpilgrm]

When someone is awoken by loud snoring, that doesn't mean they have sleep difficulties. It means that that another person is snoring loudly.

Which goes with the territory of sleeping in a roomful of other pilgrims.

Suggesting is not the same as demanding. You are attempting to discredit that point by taking it to its ridiculous extreme.

The OP's laundry list is a good example of a ridiculous extreme.

 

[J Willhaus]

It's an age old debate. Just a tip from a nurse who used to manage the hearing conservation program at a factory for hearing protection.

The best rated to reduce noise are usually the foam earplugs. Wax, flanged, and head set kind test out to be less effective although you may find one kind more comfortable than another.

 

[AnneMarie1]

Maybe albergues could (where rooms are available) have snoring rooms and non-snoring rooms?

I stayed at a place that had a designated room for snorers.

 

[AR1965]

Which goes with the territory of sleeping in a roomful of other pilgrims.



The OP's laundry list is a good example of a ridiculous extreme.

Snoring is part and parcel of the experience, yes. Loud snoring doesn't need to be. If someone knows that they snore loudly to the point of keeping others awake, the considerate thing is to sleep elsewhere and not expect others to accommodate them.

 

[TravellingMan22]

Snoring is part and parcel of the experience, yes. Loud snoring doesn't need to be. If someone knows that they snore loudly to the point of keeping others awake, the considerate thing is to sleep elsewhere and not expect others to accommodate them.

Fine in theory but lots of folks can’t afford private rooms

 

[J Willhaus]

I always encounter at least one epic snorer. Some years several. Sadly many of them have the dangerous kind of snoring with sleep apnea.

Last year there was a another lively thread about someone who was very upset about being shaken awake in the night by a fellow pilgrim (no-doubt sleep deprived and desperate). People took sides about whether it was ok/not ok for someone to "shake you" out of a sleep.

We rehash the same issues every year with little resolution...

 

[Bob P]

If we're gonna talk about snoring, might as well throw in people opening windows. Just finished 5 weeks on CF. My buddy snores lightly in a warm room and ROARS in a cold room. Guess what? When people open the windows it gets cold, it gets loud.
I'll take noise over cold any time

 

[dick bird]

Everybody snores.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I do think snorers should try everything they can to fix it before they stay in shared rooms. I tape my mouth closed (which won’t work for those with blocked noses) and my husband who has a blocked nose wears a mouth device he bought on Amazon that pretty much stops him snoring. There are solutions out there if you can be bothered looking.

Share the Amazon link!

 

[Camino Chrissy]

Snoring is part and parcel of the experience, yes. Loud snoring doesn't need to be. If someone knows that they snore loudly to the point of keeping others awake, the considerate thing is to sleep elsewhere and not expect others to accommodate them.

Or vice versa.

 

[Mananath]

I always encounter at least one epic snorer. Some years several. Sadly many of them have the dangerous kind of snoring with sleep apnea.

Last year there was a another lively thread about someone who was very upset about being shaken awake in the night by a fellow pilgrim (no-doubt sleep deprived and desperate). People took sides about whether it was ok/not ok for someone to "shake you" out of a sleep.

We rehash the same issues every year with little resolution...

Sometimes I think 90% of this forum is just rehashing old issues with no resolution. lol.

 

[ivar]

I have closed this thread...