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I agree 100 percent. Well said, Michael.No, I don't think it is an overreaction. I support the concept of leave no trace. We walk a path over a thousand years old - there is no place on that path that has not be passed by thousands, if not millions, of pilgrims along the way. It is a trail of silence, tears, sorrows, and release. There is no reason to leave any other mark than your love, kindness, patience, and prayers.
...
Good advice -- satisfies boredom, need for creative expression, primal urge to mark one's territory, (none of which are inherently "bad", but also leaves no trace (assuming the stones are scattered back from whence they came)....I sometimes build small piles on my local, stony beach but always knock them over when I leave.
Yes, He did, in which case there should be NO stacks of stones anywhere, by anyone!My one little stack of rocks isn't going to affect anything .... said 7 billion people ....
Didn't Jesus once say that only those without sin should stack the first stone? Or something like that
Oh my...aren't we all blessed that we feel the need to renumerate (I am being nice here) on things we have no business in...as guests in a country that offers it's welcome to us all. Light and Love.
Not corny....well saidI walked with a woman from California who was grieving the loss of a childhood friend due to alcoholism. She was angry and having difficulty making peace with a senseless loss. I helped her make a tiny cairn on the side of a path overlooking a beautiful vista. She said that despite being so angry at her friend, she wanted her to finally be at peace and 'left' her in a peaceful setting. That tiny cairn interfered with nothing, no one...but meant the world to it's builder. From the earth, on the earth...
I don't personally see something natural and nonintrusive as harmful or distasteful. Having said that, huge monstrosities or ones set in middle of paths may not be appropriate. Those speak "look at me!", more than "I honor you" ...I'm one who cringes from spray painted or marker graffiti , or leaving brick a brick. But I can make peace with something from the earth, giving peace to another left on this earth, struggling with loss of another who has departed from this earth in a non peaceful way. Too corny?
I walked with a woman from California who was grieving the loss of a childhood friend due to alcoholism. She was angry and having difficulty making peace with a senseless loss. I helped her make a tiny cairn on the side of a path overlooking a beautiful vista. She said that despite being so angry at her friend, she wanted her to finally be at peace and 'left' her in a peaceful setting. That tiny cairn interfered with nothing, no one...but meant the world to it's builder. From the earth, on the earth...
I don't personally see something natural and nonintrusive as harmful or distasteful. Having said that, huge monstrosities or ones set in middle of paths may not be appropriate. Those speak "look at me!", more than "I honor you" ...I'm one who cringes from spray painted or marker graffiti , or leaving brick a brick. But I can make peace with something from the earth, giving peace to another left on this earth, struggling with loss of another who has departed from this earth in a non peaceful way. Too corny?
Not intending to be rude but does "renumerate" have a different meaning in Canadian English from the one in standard English? Did you mean remunerate? Either way I don't understand what you mean to say.Oh my...aren't we all blessed that we feel the need to renumerate (I am being nice here) on things we have no business in...as guests in a country that offers it's welcome to us all. Light and Love.
Ruminate, maybe? Auto correct at work ?Not intending to be rude but does "renumerate" have a different meaning in Canadian English from the one in standard English? Did you mean remunerate? Either way I don't understand what you mean to say.
*edit: or, perhaps, "feel the need to pass judgement on things . . . "? If so I apologise - still dopey from my siesta!
so I was feeling crouchy this morning, sometimes I just feel we stick our noses into things that we have little (see not saying no) business in. No need to apologise... Changed the wording some - english is a most difficult languageNot intending to be rude but does "renumerate" have a different meaning in Canadian English from the one in standard English? Did you mean remunerate? Either way I don't understand what you mean to say.
*edit: or, perhaps, "feel the need to pass judgement on things . . . "? If so I apologise - still dopey from my siesta!
that's the word...lol txRuminate, maybe? Auto correct at work ?
I love this!I also found that a real challenge for me on the camino was prioritizing all the things that bugged me.
I love this!
I am pleased that in my old age, there are many things that don't bother me as much as they used to.
I guess you are not old enough.Yeah, I keep thinking I will outgrow it, too. I find that I start to enjoy being bugged by things.
I guess you are not old enough.It'll come.
What are the origin of these things..i thought it was a Buddist tradition
They look gorgeous ! I don't see the problem - they will all get knocked over in the next flood - its not permanent
AHAHAHAHA, that's a winner!!!!!!!!!!!I guess you are not old enough.It'll come.
All I can say is...Rock stacks? I may have seen one or two...or 50 at once!
Not, at least in the Southern traditions. Though people in the Himalaya do make cairns at high passes, but I get the sense that that is less Buddhist than animistic.i thought it was a Buddist tradition
I also found that a real challenge for me on the camino was prioritizing all the things that bugged me.
Me too....both of you...I love this!
Yeah, I keep thinking I will outgrow it, too. I find that I start to enjoy being bugged by things.
Well...it's been superceded by this post!~AHAHAHAHA, that's a winner!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm 63 years old and proof that, while you are only young once, you can be immature all your life.
It wonderful to learn something new! I never thought of the animistic side.I gather that it is an Inuit tradition (formerly known as the Eskimo). As the high Arctic has no more vegetation than small bushes, it was impossible to build signals or structures for supply caches-- the human-shaped piles of stones were put together to show where caches might be. They are known in Inuktitut as inukshuk (singular), inukshuuk (dual), or inukshuit (plural) -- but broadcasters sometimes anglicize the plural as inukshuks. In some places, they have come to signify a spiritual presence or aspect to the locations. They have also become a symbol of the territorial government in Nunavut, and appear on the flag and arms and in recent years have been erected at some Canadian embassies.
About 25 years ago, I began seeing them in parks and along trails in Canada, and saw a small collection along the banks of the Aragon (west of Jaca by about 10-15 km IIRC) on my first Aragonese in 2005. Like other symbols borrowed from aboriginal peoples, I sometimes find them a bit irksome in other places, but really they do no harm, and are helpful for some people.
I'm 63 years old and proof that, while you are only young once, you can be immature all your life.
I've always seen the inukshuk as a specific style of rock stack, designed to look (more or less) as a person. I would be very surprised if the rock stacks in the mountains of Peru, for example, were a borrowing from the Inuit. I think a more likely explanation is parallel evolution.I gather that it is an Inuit tradition (formerly known as the Eskimo). As the high Arctic has no more vegetation than small bushes, it was impossible to build signals or structures for supply caches-- the human-shaped piles of stones were put together to show where caches might be. They are known in Inuktitut as inukshuk (singular), inukshuuk (dual), or inukshuit (plural) -- but broadcasters sometimes anglicize the plural as inukshuks. In some places, they have come to signify a spiritual presence or aspect to the locations. They have also become a symbol of the territorial government in Nunavut, and appear on the flag and arms and in recent years have been erected at some Canadian embassies.
About 25 years ago, I began seeing them in parks and along trails in Canada, and saw a small collection along the banks of the Aragon (west of Jaca by about 10-15 km IIRC) on my first Aragonese in 2005. Like other symbols borrowed from aboriginal peoples, I sometimes find them a bit irksome in other places, but really they do no harm, and are helpful for some people.
I think that is a specific case where historic structures are being deconstructed to make new rocks stacks. I don't remember seeing anyone demolishing the roman roads or pallozas to make rock stacks.There's also some very serious archaeological issues with the practice:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-41245644
However, I don't know whether the Roman roads or Galicia's Iron Age stone structures are equally at risk from this sort of ignorance.
it was considered a holy sight and the tourists were never directed there for fear of its destruction.
I think this was discussed before and I'm still looking for the name and more background for one kind of small rock stacks that we saw in Ladakh. It was a field of small cairns similar to the ones that one can nowadays see along the Camino Francés - someone had posted a photo in this thread and I loathe these rock stacks on the CF. We encountered them high up in the Himalayan mountains. We were told at the time that these tiny cairns served as hiding places for your soul (not the correct word/concept but it will do for the purpose of this message) when it roamed around for a certain time (could be 49 days) after death and before rebirth, ie to hide from demons who might be chasing or fighting you during this time. Anyone happens to know anything about this?Not, at least in the Southern traditions. Though people in the Himalaya do make cairns at high passes, but I get the sense that that is less Buddhist than animistic.
I don't know for sure, @Kathar1na , but it may be more of a thing to share with the tourists. My Ladakhi friends haven't said anything and never do that, except to happily make piles of stones at Pangong Lake - just as play. All the Indian tourist come there and they have unfortunately started the trend - same with passes on the Manali Road.Anyone happens to know anything about this?
Yes this ridiculous practice MUST be banned immediately and severe jail times imposed on those who stack rocks.
When the Camino was first walked by early medieval pilgrims it was a dead level, pleasant walk the whole way. At some point some jerk faced pilgrim stacked one small stone on top of another and suddenly it became a "thing to do".
Now we have mountains of rocks stacked up. Thanks guys! No really, Thanks!
Wanna help the Camino in a meaningful way? Great! Take a damn stone from the top of a hilltop cairn and carry it down to the bottom of the next valley and drop it there. In no time we will have a dead level path once again like it used to be.
M
ps... Im almost dead certain my grasp of history and geology are rock solid.
Way too true. It's time to lighten up about the small stuff.One last thought. With all that is going down in so many places, affecting so many people on this poor benighted planet... there are plenty of stuffs to get outraged about if you feel the need for a bit of outrage.
That's true, but I was finding the discussion on the history of cairns, etc. interesting.
Well, yes - me too! That's another story, and told without grumbling.That's true, but I was finding the discussion on the history of cairns, etc. interesting.
So I may have gotten sucked into yet another tradition that is not at least 600 years old? Please keep your ears open for me, will you, if you ever hear anything to the contrary? This was many years ago, on the Markha valley trail, at a time I had never seen either mini stone stacks or love locks anywhere in the world. Both are omnipresent nowadays where many people live or pass through or while away their time ...My Ladakhi friends haven't said anything and never do that, except to happily make piles of stones at Pangong Lake - just as play. All the Indian tourist come there and they have unfortunately started the trend - same with passes on the Manali Road.
Maybe, maybe not. But certainly I'll keep my ear to the ground and next time I'm there I'll ask. Because now I'm curious about what the truth is.So I may have gotten sucked into yet another tradition that is not at least 600 years old? Please keep your ears open for me, will you, if you ever hear anything to the contrary?
I'd appreciate it, thank you. We often think of the tiny homes we created for our souls and hope that they are still there. While I happily wipe away or kick over a mini rock pile on or near a proper waymarker on the Francés from time to time, I wouldn't dream of touching those over there.Maybe, maybe not. But certainly I'll keep my ear to the ground and next time I'm there I'll ask. Because now I'm curious about what the truth is.
On the other hand, selfies with imitation gang signs should be banned, except for Crips and Bloods and real surfers.Well, I love them ..
Saw it this morning. These lines caught my attention:And the argument continues: Stone Stacking
I thought I recognised it from my July trip!Camino Aragones between Arres and Ruesta
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45146681
An article from the BBC website, I don't do it but surely an over reaction?
Don't forget a dolmen is a prehistoric burial chamber and a Stonehenge an early and crude form of Jenga whereas what we so often see along the Camino is more of a modern attempt at passing fame or, in the case of Angela from Melbourne, infamy.I was struck by some of the reactions to the stacking rocks when reflecting on the (many) dolmens that I was able to see while in Jersey this summer, while there is another set of stacked stones in Witshire that is now a very famous and much visited location ...
Something tells me this is tongue in cheek. Am I right?I was struck by some of the reactions to the stacking rocks when reflecting on the (many) dolmens that I was able to see while in Jersey this summer, while there is another set of stacked stones in Witshire that is now a very famous and much visited location ...
Beautiful photograph!My first introduction to stone stacking or cairns was during hikes in the U.S. National Parks in the West (Arches, Bryce Canyon, Grand Canyon etc). I personally was thankful to see them, indicating the path.
My most recent experience was this month walking the Huayhuash Circuit in Peru. The cairn indicated the pass we were to climb to. Seeing the cairn at 4700-5000 meters was a relief - that meant that we had reached the pass and no longer needed to climb!
I find them lovely and in many cases an art form. They are made up of natural products - stones - which come from the earth and return to the earth. No eye sore in my eyes.
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Yo llevaré la pequeña piedra y la dejaré bajo la cruz. Por acto de fe y de tradición. No creo tenga un efecto nocivo al hábitat. Dios los beyMy thoughts are if you want to do it, if not walk on by.
Yo llevaré la pequeña piedra y la dejaré bajo la cruz. Por acto de fe y de tradición. No creo tenga un efecto nocivo al hábitat. Dios los bendigaYes, He did, in which case there should be NO stacks of stones anywhere, by anyone!
It says "I carried a small stone and left it below the cross. As an act of faith and tradition. I don't think that it has a harmful effect on the effect on the habitat (environment). God bless you."Don't know what the above poster is saying, but it's been kind of fun glancing through replies on this old thread! It's an old "twin" to the newest one many of us have been viewing the last few days...rock on!
Thank you, Trecile! I appreciate you translating the post. I totally agree with him on that. He did exactly what I have done twice.It says "I carried a small stone and left it below the cross. As an act of faith and tradition. I don't think that it has a harmful effect on the effect on the habitat (environment). God bless you."
(I need to keep practicing my Spanish.)
Lleve la piedrita en el 2016 y la llevaré al próximo Camino espero sea 2021 septiembre. !Buen Camino!Yo llevaré la pequeña piedra y la dejaré bajo la cruz. Por acto de fe y de tradición. No creo tenga un efecto nocivo al hábitat. Dios los bendiga
I'm with you on that! I've been saying a lot those same words as you these past 4+ months.Lleve la piedrita en el 2016 y la llevaré al próximo Camino espero sea 2021 septiembre. !Buen Camino!
Took the pebble in 2016 and I will take it to the next Camino I hope it will be 2021 September. !Buen Camino!
I think this is the crux of it. I appreciate both points of view. The Camino is big; it contains multitudes. My Camino definitely has space for wilderness with minimally touched landscapes. It also has room for landscapes shaped by the human inhabitants and the pilgrimage and the pilgrims who walk it (which, at least on the Frances, quantitatively probably makes up the majority of the Camino, as anyone who has walked through the meseta can attest).The difference between an artist and an ecologist perhaps: one wants to make their mark or a statement on the landscape; the other would rather you didn't impact on the landscape at all (or at least by very little)?
@David Tallan, I see these two as almost the ends of the spectrum - I don't see the issue as binary. It isn't just one or the other, but a broad spectrum between these two positions. On one end might be art, although it might extend into edgy issues like graffiti - clearly non-functional, but at its extremes disruptive, inelegant, and unappealing. The other end might be wilderness, and the preservation of this for the future for any number of reasons. In between there are a variety of things that might be called functional, although I am not sure that is is necessarily the best word to use.I think this is the crux of it. I appreciate both points of view. The Camino is big; it contains multitudes. My Camino definitely has space for wilderness with minimally touched landscapes. It also has room for landscapes shaped by the human inhabitants and the pilgrimage and the pilgrims who walk it (which, at least on the Frances, quantitatively probably makes up the majority of the Camino, as anyone who has walked through the meseta can attest).
Now we're getting to the more important asoect of this. Excellent post, Doug.Let me suggest that these two ends - art and ecological preservation - have to be resolved in everything we do across that spectrum of human use
Whether this is a serious suggestion or not for the Camino, it is a useful preservation strategy for fragile areas to discourage any use, even walking.Ban walking
In contrast to the "seemingly endless real issues" in the world which we are unlikely to solve by posting in an online forum about the Camino de Santiago in Spain, the issue of the visual pollution and other kinds of pollution caused by those who walk the Camino de Santiago will not be solved here either but exchanging our views about it all may help to contribute to change some minds who hadn't thought about it at all before or heard and read only one narrative, i.e. "It's what you do when you walk on the Camino". So perhaps it is not a complete waste of time and energy to question this fairly new phenomenon.I say to those critics..puleese. You got nothin' better to when this world is full of seeming endless real issues?
I thought ocassionally cairns of stones are piled to help denote a trail, not on the caminos
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