The culture has changed...sadly

[grayland]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

 

[isabeau]

Don’t be disheartened… as a soon to be new pilgrim I have been reading as many different posts and threads as I can. In regards to luggage transport my husband and I have opted to mail ahead our luggage to our last stop and will be living off our packs for the section of the walk that we will be able to do . We want to immerse ourselves as a pilgrim as much as we’re able given our own limitations and have valued all the messages and community here. P/S we both have noted all that we have learned from here that was not even hinted at in guidebooks.

 

[ivar]

As with any community or group of people, things change... some like it, some don't. But the change is alway there. Pilgrims walking into Compostela 100 years ago would not like that fact that pilgrims these days take an airplane to get home... a 100 years ago, people took a boat of walked home again.

 

[Kgaynor]

People need different things at different stages of their journey. I spent almost a year lurking and learning before I left on my walk. I do see the need for on the walk assistance during the walk if you are missing items that can not be left behind. Glasses are important, especially prescription glasses. I know I paid $1500 for mine (I’ve got a lot going on in my prescription) and would be distraught if I left them behind.

 

[Kgaynor]

As with any community or group of people, things change... some like it, some don't. But the change is alway there. Pilgrims walking into Compostela 100 years ago would not like that fact that pilgrims these days take an airplane to get home... a 100 years ago, people took a boat of walked home again.

I thought a lot of how hardcore those pilgrims were. As hard as it was to walk to Santiago, they had to walk home.

 

[malingerer]

My heart goes out to those who never made it home. It reminds me that the scallop shell was the sign of the RETURNING pilgrim and NOT something to be picked up any time , anywhere.

Vaya con Dios

Samarkand.

 

[Turga]

Much experience has been lost.

Much experience is accumulated on this forum. Perhaps new pilgrims are getting better to (re)search on the forum and learning from experience in that way?

 

[Lydia Gillen]

Remember all the posts about blisters!!!. It was like every pilgrim had his or her own remedy. Well for new pilgrims. I started the Camino in Roncesvalles in 2007 age 63 and I got blisters and treated them with needle and thread and betadine and compeed. In fact I threaded my needles at home because the lighting in some crowded albergues was bad. After a few years I pondered 'why did I get blisters in Spain and not in Ireland?' 'Sweaty feet' was the answer so I decided prevention was better than cure and each morning on Camino, before putting on my socks I put antiperspirant on to my feet and I don't get blisters any more. If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

 

[Bradypus]

If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

Walk in January?

 

[Kgaynor]

Remember all the posts about blisters!!!. It was like every pilgrim had his or her own remedy. Well for new pilgrims. I started the Camino in Roncesvalles in 2007 age 63 and I got blisters and treated them with needle and thread and betadine and compeed. In fact I threaded my needles at home because the lighting in some crowded albergues was bad. After a few years I pondered 'why did I get blisters in Spain and not in Ireland?' 'Sweaty feet' was the answer so I decided prevention was better than cure and each morning on Camino, before putting on my socks I put antiperspirant on to my feet and I don't get blisters any more. If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

I stopped every 6-7 km and changed my socks. It worked for me.

 

[dougfitz]

If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

@Lydia Gillen, I train regularly in this sort of heat and a little higher at home in Australia. It helps, but I can assure you I still find it debilitating nonetheless.

 

[FourSeasons]

If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

Start early, 5:30am, you'll witness some amazing sunrises. Finish between noon and 1:30p. Stay at albergues with swimming pools. Stay hydrated. Buen Camino!!

 

[henrythedog]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

Recent ‘pack transport’ threads do seem to outnumber ‘pack contents’threads although a constant is the spike in ‘the Camino is full’ threads in April and September.

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

I am on here only for at max 5 years but during that time I did not see a tremendous change. People still seem to have the same problems. Yes, sometimes I see questions where I think this is a different type of pilgrim than I am, but that is OK.
Also, on my last Camino in May I met mainly people who carried their own luggage, who suffered from blisters, from closed albergues and knee-pain, blisters, dehydration, too much rain and you name it.
Yes, I also had the feeling that between Melide and Santiago there were more people with nicely done hair, aftershave and fashionable clothes and tiny day-packs than 4 years ago, the majority was suffering as always
I would agree a new type of pilgrim (or whatever you like to call him) has arrived especially on the Francés, but this is more an addition, not a replacement I think.

 

[J Willhaus]

I am at the albergue in Arres on the Aragon way. Our pilgrims are still carrying their packs and not reserving. Most stop when they reach the CF at Puenta la Reina to avoid the crowds. Etc.

 

[Bradypus]

I am on here only for at max 5 years but during that time I did not see a tremendous change.

Covid excepted there have not been very substantial changes in the past five years. Numbers have continued to grow but the modern patterns were already established. The major changes in Camino practices like luggage transfers, internet reservations and commercial tour companies are all a good bit older than that. As someone who can remember walking the Camino Frances before the invention of luggage transport, private albergues, the World Wide Web and the digital mobile phone I think it has changed quite a bit over the years!

 

[Arctic_Alex]

[...] As someone who can remember walking the Camino Frances before the invention of luggage transport, private albergues, the World Wide Web and the digital mobile phone I think it has changed quite a bit over the years!

In fact, I myself have also changed quite a lot over the last decades as a keen hiker

And yes, although I discovered the Camino late, hiking in general was different and more adventurous before the advent of the WWW, mobile devices, GPS and infrastructure.

.. still a big fan of map and compass ;-)

 

[Bradypus]

.. still a big fan of map and compass ;-)

Me too. But they are pretty much redundant on the main Caminos. Takes a bit of effort to get properly lost on the Frances.

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Me too. But they are pretty much redundant on the main Caminos. Takes a bit of effort to get properly lost on the Frances.

True! Unless you dive deep into a conversation with another peregrino … totally ignoring yellow arrows and inspiring a total of 40ish pilgrims behind you to follow you into nowhere … did that some years ago ;-)

I still use map and compass in the wilderness at home where in some places you have no phone reception at all

 

[Tincatinker]

@estorildon has commented in another thread with a reflection on the preponderance of “seniors” on the Camino and on the forum.

As Mel Tillis nearly wrote: “The wants and the needs of a pilgrim your age, Wrinkly I recognize”.

Trouble is that was never quite what any of us intended when we first ventured. The whole point was to not be comforted, cosseted, guided with care down the safe Way to the perfect conclusion.

In my early ventures in Spain, way before I undertook a Camino, it was a reasonable assumption that the Guardia Civil should be avoided at all times: now they hand out Agua and Sellos and sound advice. A mattress in a bunkhouse would have a healthy population of invertebrates but with luck, and in a busy Fonda, they’d be fairly well fed. Oh, and there was a general assumption that if you weren’t carrying it you didn’t need it.

So @grayland is right, from my perspective, Camino has changed. The culture of Camino has changed. @grayland says “sadly”. I think I’m saddened too. I offer no criticism of the “modern” pilgrim but I’m saddened to remember the glory that was there and that they’ll miss. The Camino was an opportunity to step out of the “normal” world. It seems, to me, that the “normal” world has stepped onto the Camino and brought with it all the stuff we used to use Camino to leave behind.

 

[henrythedog]

True! Unless you dive deep into a conversation with another peregrino … totally ignoring yellow arrows and inspiring a total of 40ish pilgrims behind you to follow you into nowhere … did that some years ago ;-)

I still use map and compass in the wilderness at home where in some places you have no phone reception at all

I’m also a big fan of map and compass and probably one of the few who regret that the difference between grid-north and magnetic-north (UK ordnance survey maps) is approaching zero.

All my life I’ve had to remember ‘grid to mag; add: mag to grid; get rid’

Now it’s ‘grid to mag; do nothing: mag to grid; do nothing’.

As to mobile reception, well we still have small towns and villages in the UK with no functioning reception. Ten years ago I could stream the rugby, live over 4G, in the middle of the Kalahari whilst at home I needed a landline even to make a phone call.

 

[henrythedog]

the Guardia Civil should be avoided at all times

In the 80’s (and probably before), oh yes.

Post #21

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/burgos-to-leon.73870/

 

[Arctic_Alex]

I’m also a big fan of map and compass and probably one of the few who regret that the difference between grid-north and magnetic-north (UK ordnance survey maps) is approaching zero.

All my life I’ve had to remember ‘grid to mag; add: mag to grid; get rid’

Now it’s ‘grid to mag; do nothing: mag to grid; do nothing’.

As to mobile reception, well we still have small towns and villages in the UK with no functioning reception. Ten years ago I could stream the rugby, live over 4G, in the middle of the Kalahari whilst at home I needed a landline even to make a phone call.

My compass can be adjusted, depending on deviation. Yes, it felt great to know all those subtleties and knowing how to handle them. And these days the kiddies, some of them in their 30ies or older, take out their phone and just instantly know where they are.
But then, when you are our somewhere where this does not work, you encounter scared people, just because their phone does not help them any more ;-)

 

[dougfitz]

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

I agree, many things have changed on the Camino and on the forum, and I too miss the many old faces that have faded away. I am sitting here recalling arcane details of past threads about guidebooks (bludge off someone who has one, don't carry one yourself), first aid kits (bludge of someone who has one, don't carry one yourself) and how much water to carry (bludge of someone who has some left, don't carry very much yourself). There was even an interesting discussion when someone felt that they would like to walk as a mendicant pilgrim just to test that the Spanish people would support him. Something which sounded to me like, bludge your money of a local, don't carry any yourself!

Yes, those were the days, my friends, we thought they'd never end, we'd walk and prance forever and a day ...

 

[dougfitz]

Now it’s ‘grid to mag; do nothing: mag to grid; do nothing’.

You need to get somewhere with a really healthy declination, like this spot in Aotearoa/New Zealand

You clicked here:
Latitude: 38° 19' 8.8" S
Longitude: 184° 1' 21.1" W
Magnetic Declination: +21° 13'
Declination is POSITIVE (EAST)
Inclination: 63° 49'
Magnetic field strength: 54067.7 nT

There are some islands that you probably cannot get too on your normal cruise liner to walk, like this:

You clicked here:
Latitude: 53° 8' 46.9" S
Longitude: 286° 29' 56.5" W
Magnetic Declination: -61° 55'
Declination is NEGATIVE (WEST)
Inclination: 70° 41'
Magnetic field strength: 51387.4 nT

 

[Tincatinker]

Can anybody recommend an App?

 

[Robo]

If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

I’ve recently had that on the VdlP. The strategy I used was……..

1. Leave an hour or more before dawn. Without disturbing others! This became my favourite part of the day. Watching the dawn is amazing. (added. a good head torch is required)
2. Try to finish walking by 2pm at the latest. As 3-4 pm is often the hottest time.
3. Carry plenty of water. For me that is roughly 1 litre per 10 kms, but will vary with terrain and temp.
4. Take electrolytes. I use saltsticks or Aquarius. If carrying 2 litres fluids, 1 was Aquarius.
5. use an umbrella!

I never had any problems.

 

[grayland]

Yes, those were the days, my friends, we thought they'd never end, we'd walk and prance forever and a day ...

Thanks Doug...that hit the target.

Like @Tincatinker (post #20 above) has so well described, the essence of the Camino and the forum ....
"The Camino was an opportunity to step out of the “normal” world. It seems, to me, that the “normal” world has stepped onto the Camino and brought with it all the stuff we used to use Camino to leave behind."

 

[FourSeasons]

Yes, some questions are different and sadly the Camino has changed even in as little as ten years. My first CF in 2013, I didn't take my cell phone. I had John Brierley and a little Cannon camera and of course my backpack along with a tight budget. Muni's all the way because I had no idea how much walking the Frances would cost. I trusted Brierley and budgeted accordingly. I didn't know of bag transfer until Burgos and barely knew how to use it (only for a few days until I got over a cold). Never, ever booked ahead. How could I, I didn't have a cell phone. I was blissfully ignorant and I relied on grace, faith, those wonderful yellow arrows and the support of my growing Camino family to get me to Santiago. Oh and there was still internet cafes with computers you could use for a euro to email home. Memories flooding in of the conversations I had with fellow pilgrims while waiting for my weekly turn at a computer. We would chat about the emails we received from loved ones at home. That’s right, weekly, not hourly or daily but once a week communication to/from home. Oh the good ol days.

I noticed small changes in 2016 and even bigger changes in 2019. I'm truly blessed to have experienced the Camino before it went down the road of no return. Change.

 

[Arctic_Alex]

But aren't there other Caminos that are still more like in the old days? The Francés has surely changed a lot.

 

[Peterexpatkiwi]

Weekly emails? They hadn't even been invented when I started out. As I see was the case for many here ! You let everyone know ( by mail) where you would ( hopefully) be in 4 to 6 weeks and, if you were lucky, collected your return mail from the ' Postrestuant' (sp, it's been a while!) when you got there. Assuming you were on time - they only held it for a month.
You phoned home once or twice a year - Christmas for example - and the cost! Ouch!! I called my mother for her 50th birthday from a phone box in the middle of nowhere, Zimbabwe, and it cost me a week's budget....
And as said above - if you weren't carrying it, you didn't need it!

while waiting for my weekly turn at a computer.

As regards the Camino, I too have found it later in life. And I understand and appreciate the changes that you veterans must have experienced. But are our lives not constantly changing - for better and worse - all the time?
I'm simply grateful that the Camino exists

 

[henrythedog]

But aren't there other Caminos that are still more like in the old days? The Francés has surely changed a lot.

Yes there are many.

If only the respected moderators would stop sharing details of their ventures on the lesser-known paths…

 

[Arctic_Alex]

Yes there are many.

If only the respected moderators would stop sharing details of their ventures on the lesser-known paths…

Well, there are always those of the 4th and 5th line that will remain less traveled for quite a while!
But nevertheless you are right. Those places most fond to me are best kept secret not to draw too much attention to them.

 

[FourSeasons]

I'm simply grateful that the Camino exists

I as well. Three times grateful and I know there’s a 4th one to be had, God willing of course. Although I will begrudgingly accept the changes, I will embrace it. Change is hard in life and on the Camino.

 

[LTfit]

Thanks Doug...that hit the target.

Like @Tincatinker (post #20 above) has so well described, the essence of the Camino and the forum ....
"The Camino was an opportunity to step out of the “normal” world. It seems, to me, that the “normal” world has stepped onto the Camino and brought with it all the stuff we used to use Camino to leave behind."

But...you can still step back in time so to speak by walking those less trodden routes. Next Saturday I'll be starting the Olvidado and from what I've read, services are minimal and pilgrim few and far between.

 

[Bradypus]

But...you can still step back in time so to speak by walking those less trodden routes.

Or even by walking the more popular ones in winter. Walking the Frances in January this year was like stepping back 20 or 30 years in some ways. I felt much more in common with the other pilgrims I met this time than I did when walking the same route in summer 2016. The inconveniences of limited services and longer stages were a small price to pay for the experience.

 

[SushiNinja]

Start early, 5:30am, you'll witness some amazing sunrises. Finish between noon and 1:30p. Stay at albergues with swimming pools. Stay hydrated. Buen Camino!!

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

 

[YoYoTom]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

What an interesting question! Yes, the conversations have changed. Although I personally am all for transporting packs (luggage has no place on the Camino IMO), it seems like too many of us do this at the risk of missing out on a key element of walking the Camino. What I’m referring to is the concept of bring a minimum amount of things and carrying it all on your back. I would strongly encourage others to carry your own stuff if you are able! It is so “freeing” to walk in this way!

 

[t2andreo]

On 5 June, I celebrated my 70th birthday, and the 10th anniversary of my first Camino in 2013. Things HAVE changed since then. For one thing, there are tens of thousands more forum members. I think we recently exceeded 100,000 members.

Some of those members are long time veterans. Others are newbies. Some have done dozens of Caminos. Others are trying to do their first one.

However, and IMHO, people have STILL not gotten comfortable using the SEARCH function at the top, right corner of the web page, before asking the SAME BASIC QUESTIONS. Just use key-words for your search: sleeping bag, July, Burgos, walking poles, Madrid airport, etc. The reply will be huge. You can limit your search within the initial results. The forum search function is VERY ROBUST.

I say this because many of us veterans no longer immediately dive-in to repeat the same answers to the same questions we gave years ago. Things do not change that much from year to year. My view, and that of some other veterans I have communicated with on this issue, is that the lesser experienced pilgrims should search the hundreds of thousands of posts, before asking a particular question.

Those among us who have been there and done that are ALWAYS willing to help out with a new variant of an old question, provided the new variant of the question is unique enough to warrant a new answer. The Conversation or Private Message function exists so any forum member can ask another forum member a specific question that may not be of interest to the other 100,000+ members. I ALWAYS reply to my PMs - and quickly.

Lastly, I was 59 when I first learned of the Camino. Aged 60 when I arrived at Santiago the first time, walking from SJPdP on my first Camino.

Now, 10 years later, I am starting to see my mortality ahead of me. I intend to remain active as long as I can. But, over the past three-years, I have mourned the passing of more than a dozen, family members, friends, and former colleagues. The COVID pandemic, and the passage of years, have thinned out the proverbial herd a bit.

While I accept this as a fact of life, and I am well-aware that no one gets out of life alive, it is all very sobering. In fact, the Camino and this forum got me through the COVID thing over the past more than three years. When I have a bad day, I can always find something to do here to help someone else. Finding issues to reply to is never a problem.

While I continue to try to walk a Camino each spring and to volunteer at the Pilgrim Office each summer - usually around the Apostle's Feast - when they need the help the most, life sometimes gets in the way. I am currently the caregiver for my wife, who is gravely ill. So, no Santiago or Camino for me this season. Señor Santiago will still be there next year, and the years after.

What I am trying to impart here is that I, and some others, who are more "mature" persons, are still actively participating in the forum. We also try to keep our passion for the Camino - and all related things alive - in part by helping in the forum. However, we are not as keen to jump on every post in every thread. The consequence, is that it "appears" that we are not as active.

On the contrary, we are active. We are there, lurking in the background, reading the highlights every day. just more selective at what discussions we choose to dive into. As I become more senior, I am more deliberate at where I choose to offer assistance. I will always be here to help any pilgrim, for as long as my Savior gives me the strength, and internet connectivity.

Hope this helps clarify matters.

Tom

 

[lt56ny]

Remember all the posts about blisters!!!. It was like every pilgrim had his or her own remedy. Well for new pilgrims. I started the Camino in Roncesvalles in 2007 age 63 and I got blisters and treated them with needle and thread and betadine and compeed. In fact I threaded my needles at home because the lighting in some crowded albergues was bad. After a few years I pondered 'why did I get blisters in Spain and not in Ireland?' 'Sweaty feet' was the answer so I decided prevention was better than cure and each morning on Camino, before putting on my socks I put antiperspirant on to my feet and I don't get blisters any more. If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

My only tip to prevent eshaustion when walking in 28C weather is walk in November like I do. I hate hot weather. I walked the VDLP2 years ago and started in late October and it was still temps up to 30C the first week or so. It was awful, but thankfully the heat moderated quickly.

 

[lt56ny]

Last week, I celebrated my 70th birthday, and the 10th anniversary of my first Camino in 2013. Things HAVE changed since then. For one thing, there are tens of thousands more forum members. I think we recently exceeded 100,000 members.

Some of those members are long time veterans. Others are newbies. Some have done dozens of Caminos. Others are trying to do their first one.

However, and IMHO, people have STILL not gotten comfortable using the SEARCH function at the top, right corner of the web page, before asking the SAME BASIC QUESTIONS. Just use key-words for your search: sleeping bag, July, Burgos, walking poles, Madrid airport, etc. The reply will be huge. You can limit your search within the initial results. The forum search function is VERY ROBUST.

I say this because many of us veterans no longer immediately dive-in to repeat the same answers to the same questions we gave years ago. Things do not change that much from year to year. My view, and that of some other veterans I have communicated with on this issue, is that the lesser experienced pilgrims should search the hundreds of thousands of posts, before asking a particular question.

Those among us who have been there and done that are ALWAYS willing to help out with a new variant of an old question, provided the new variant of the question is unique enough to warrant a new answer. The Conversation or Private Message function exists so any forum member can ask another forum member a specific question that may not be of interest to the other 100,000+ members. I ALWAYS reply to my PMs - and quickly.

Lastly, I was 59 when I first learned of the Camino. Aged 60 when I arrived at Santiago the first time, walking from SJPdP on my first Camino.

Now, 10 years later, I am starting to see my mortality ahead of me. I intend to remain active as long as I can. But, over the past three-years, I have mourned the passing of more than a dozen, family members, friends, and former colleagues. The COVID pandemic, and the passage of years, have thinned out the proverbial herd a bit.

While I accept this as a fact of life, and I am well-aware that no one gets out of life alive, it is all very sobering. In fact, the Camino and this forum got me through the COVID thing over the past more than three years. When I have a bad day, I can always find something to do here to help someone else. Finding issues to reply to is never a problem.

While I continue to try to walk a Camino each spring and to volunteer at the Pilgrim Office each summer - usually around the Apostle's Feast - when they need the help the most, life sometimes gets in the way. I am currently the caregiver for my wife, who is gravely ill. So, no Santiago or Camino for me this season. Señor Santiago will still be there next year, and the years after.

What I am trying to impart here is that I, and some others, who are more "mature" persons, are still actively participating in the forum. We also try to keep our passion for the Camino - and all related things alive - in part by helping in the forum. However, we are not as keen to jump on every post in every thread. The consequence, is that it "appears" that we are not as active.

On the contrary, we are active. We are there, lurking in the background, reading the highlights every day. just more selective at what discussions we choose to dive into. As I become more senior, I am more deliberate at where I choose to offer assistance. I will always be here to help any pilgrim, for as long as my Savior gives me the strength, and internet connectivity.

Hope this helps clarify matters.

Tom

Tom, you have captured my sentiments entirely. I couldn't agree more. I have also lately seen more people (Not alot at all but more) posting things that can be considered inflammatory and/or self serving. There are now many more topics that I see in the daily e-mail that I ignore.

 

[lt56ny]

I am at the albergue in Arres on the Aragon way. Our pilgrims are still carrying their packs and not reserving. Most stop when they reach the CF at Puenta la Reina to avoid the crowds. Etc.

I think that people that you describe are similar to myself. Those of us who avoid all or part of the CF and walk quieter paths carry their packs and sleep in albergues/donativos/refugios. I am not sure but I think on many of these routes like the Aragones you have no choice but to carry your pack. I could be wrong and of course you would know alot better than myself regarding the Aragones especially. I am only guessing but I would imagine many pilgrims on routes like the Aragones have walked multiple caminos and want to take quieter and simpler caminos.

 

[J Willhaus]

I think that people that you describe are similar to myself. Those of us who avoid all or part of the CF and walk quieter paths carry their packs and sleep in albergues/donativos/refugios. I am not sure but I think on many of these routes like the Aragones you have no choice but to carry your pack. I could be wrong and of course you would know alot better than myself regarding the Aragones especially. I am only guessing but I would imagine many pilgrims on routes like the Aragones have walked multiple caminos and want to take quieter and simpler caminos.

Correos advertises that you can ship Mon-Fri on the Aragon way, but we don't accept packs here at the Albergue de Peregrinos in Arres. Perhaps at the Casa Rural up the street?

 

[joecollins]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

Such is the nature of these forums.

 

[lt56ny]

But aren't there other Caminos that are still more like in the old days? The Francés has surely changed a lot.

There are lots of other caminos that are "more like the old days". Aragones, Vasco, All the southern routes, Invierno, San Sebastian, the routes in France. You just are trading more people and infrastructure for sometimes walking completely alone for days but wonderful solitude and different landscapes and far less infrastructure and more planning so you don't have to walk a whole day without food and know you have somewhere to sleep that night.

 

[lt56ny]

Correos advertises that you can ship Mon-Fri on the Aragon way, but we don't accept packs here at the Albergue de Peregrinos in Arres. Perhaps at the Casa Rural up the street?

I have no idea and have never used a backpack service. Maybe when I am 80 I will. But at 69 I am still going strong enough!!!

 

[lt56ny]

The Camino was an opportunity to step out of the “normal” world. It seems, to me, that the “normal” world has stepped onto the Camino and brought with it all the stuff we used to use Camino to leave behind.

I couldn't agree with what you wrote more. This is one of the reasons I will be on the Vasco this year and the Coastal Portugues in mid November, Next year do the Madrid or Mozarabe and redo the rest of the VDLP etc, etc. But I have always thought that for me the Camino is the true real world. That so much of what we call the "normal" is far from the normal and wouldn't a life lead on Camino with the spirit of Camino be far healthier and a more "normal" life to strive to lead? I know I live in a fantasy land but the camino is home and keeps me sane from all the madness and worry for my kids futures.

 

[mike105]

Whenever I hear people talking about how things have changed not for the better, I'm reminded of a scene in The Breakfast Club. The teacher is complaining how the kids have changed and the custodian says it's BS. He says, "the kids haven't changed, you have..." I think as we age we romanticize the past, frequently forgetting that change is the essence of life.

 

[mattythedog]

People need different things at different stages of their journey. I spent almost a year lurking and learning before I left on my walk. I do see the need for on the walk assistance during the walk if you are missing items that can not be left behind. Glasses are important, especially prescription glasses. I know I paid $1500 for mine (I’ve got a lot going on in my prescription) and would be distraught if I left them behind.

I always keep a copy of my prescription on my phone in case i need new glasses away from home. Luckily it has not happened. I also keep glasses on a lanyard, usually hanging from my neck if I make a causal stop. I hang or put them inside my pack when stopping for a break. Have good habits; have your stuff when you need it.

 

[J Willhaus]

I always keep a copy of my prescription on my phone in case i need new glasses away from home. Luckily it has not happened. I also keep glasses on a lanyard, usually hanging from my neck if I make a causal stop. I hang or put them inside my pack when stopping for a break. Have good habits; have your stuff when you need it.

Last year Phil fell asleep on the flight over and sat on his glasses bending them badly. He found an eyeglass shop in San Sebastian where the owner's wife was American and got them repaired.

 

[MargiSchmidt]

Last week, I celebrated my 70th birthday, and the 10th anniversary of my first Camino in 2013. Things HAVE changed since then. For one thing, there are tens of thousands more forum members. I think we recently exceeded 100,000 members.

Some of those members are long time veterans. Others are newbies. Some have done dozens of Caminos. Others are trying to do their first one.

However, and IMHO, people have STILL not gotten comfortable using the SEARCH function at the top, right corner of the web page, before asking the SAME BASIC QUESTIONS. Just use key-words for your search: sleeping bag, July, Burgos, walking poles, Madrid airport, etc. The reply will be huge. You can limit your search within the initial results. The forum search function is VERY ROBUST.

I say this because many of us veterans no longer immediately dive-in to repeat the same answers to the same questions we gave years ago. Things do not change that much from year to year. My view, and that of some other veterans I have communicated with on this issue, is that the lesser experienced pilgrims should search the hundreds of thousands of posts, before asking a particular question.

Those among us who have been there and done that are ALWAYS willing to help out with a new variant of an old question, provided the new variant of the question is unique enough to warrant a new answer. The Conversation or Private Message function exists so any forum member can ask another forum member a specific question that may not be of interest to the other 100,000+ members. I ALWAYS reply to my PMs - and quickly.

Lastly, I was 59 when I first learned of the Camino. Aged 60 when I arrived at Santiago the first time, walking from SJPdP on my first Camino.

Now, 10 years later, I am starting to see my mortality ahead of me. I intend to remain active as long as I can. But, over the past three-years, I have mourned the passing of more than a dozen, family members, friends, and former colleagues. The COVID pandemic, and the passage of years, have thinned out the proverbial herd a bit.

While I accept this as a fact of life, and I am well-aware that no one gets out of life alive, it is all very sobering. In fact, the Camino and this forum got me through the COVID thing over the past more than three years. When I have a bad day, I can always find something to do here to help someone else. Finding issues to reply to is never a problem.

While I continue to try to walk a Camino each spring and to volunteer at the Pilgrim Office each summer - usually around the Apostle's Feast - when they need the help the most, life sometimes gets in the way. I am currently the caregiver for my wife, who is gravely ill. So, no Santiago or Camino for me this season. Señor Santiago will still be there next year, and the years after.

What I am trying to impart here is that I, and some others, who are more "mature" persons, are still actively participating in the forum. We also try to keep our passion for the Camino - and all related things alive - in part by helping in the forum. However, we are not as keen to jump on every post in every thread. The consequence, is that it "appears" that we are not as active.

On the contrary, we are active. We are there, lurking in the background, reading the highlights every day. just more selective at what discussions we choose to dive into. As I become more senior, I am more deliberate at where I choose to offer assistance. I will always be here to help any pilgrim, for as long as my Savior gives me the strength, and internet connectivity.

Hope this helps clarify matters.

Tom

Wow Tom, well written ...well said.

 

[joecollins]

Whenever I hear people talking about how things have changed not for the better, I'm reminded of a scene in The Breakfast Club. The teacher is complaining how the kids have changed and the custodian says it's BS. He says, "the kids haven't changed, you have..." I think as we age we romanticize the past, frequently forgetting that change is the essence of life.

Every new generation handles things differently than the previous. And nostalgia is worthwhile to keep the memories alive.

 

[El Cascayal]

I have no idea and have never used a backpack service. Maybe when I am 80 I will. But at 69 I am still going strong enough!!!

I relish posts like these, others also on this thread. We tend to judge others by our own lens and abilities. In the past few years I (also 69) am dealing from severe osteoarthritis with a recent total reverse shoulder replacement and pain everywhere that is a daily companion. I have a very light pack, a glorified expensive plastic bag, really, and I carry very little, less than 10 lbs including pack, rain gear and water. Sometimes on steep descents, ascents long km days it is simply unbearable. At home, daily, I walk 6-8 miles to stay in shape. When I send my pack ahead does this make me a lesser Peregrina than you?

 

[El Cascayal]

Finally why would you care anyway?

I care because so many constantly seem to put down those who need their pack carried. So glad to hear you are not in that category and that you are health.

 

[J Willhaus]

I

I relish posts like these, others also on this thread. We tend to judge others by our own lens and abilities. In the past few years I (also 69) am dealing from severe osteoarthritis with a recent total reverse shoulder replacement and pain everywhere that is a daily companion. I have a very light pack, a glorified expensive plastic bag, really, and I carry very little, less than 10 lbs including pack, rain gear and water. Sometimes on steep descents, ascents long km days it is simply unbearable. At home, daily, I walk 6-8 miles to stay in shape. When I send my pack ahead does this make me a lesser Peregrina than you?

It only means there are some places you cannot stay and maybe some Caminos you may not walk. My husband is reaching a point where we may need to consider pack transport some days. We know it may limit our ability to do certain things, just as now we know we can't stay where there is no electricity due to our need for CPAP machines. We are accepting of these limitations. Whether others judge us remains to be seen, but we probably judge ourselves more critically. Yes, the would is changing, but we can choose to adapt or not.

 

[lt56ny]

I care because so many constantly seem to put down those who need their pack carried. So glad to hear you are not in that category and that you are health.

Thank you and buen camino.

 

[Bradypus]

Yes, the would is changing, but we can choose to adapt or not.

I think that many of us have a "pick and mix" approach - welcoming and adopting some recent developments but rejecting others. Personally I welcome mobile phones and the internet and embrace them both with enthusiasm. I prefer to walk without booking my accommodation in advance and can usually do so in the off-season. I find the pressure to end the walking day at lunchtime in busy periods very discouraging and instead enjoy the lack of bed races in quiet months. I dislike the huge numbers now found on the main Caminos in peak seasons but I can still find other routes and times of year which suit my taste for solitude better. Walking during the winter the issue of luggage transport simply does not arise as apart from the final 100km of the Camino Frances there is none available! To some extent I can still encounter much of the positive experience of my earlier walks and avoid the less attractive aspects of the modern Camino while still taking advantage of the greatly improved accommodation and other mod cons which I do find valuable.

 

[grayland]

As always.....any mention by someone that they prefer to carry their pack is met with quick accusations of "judgemental".

The judgement in these accusations is an attempt at censorship of those who wish to express that they choose to walk a Camino in their own way by minimizing their kit and carrying it themselves as far as they can physically.

 

[JoroAtanasof]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

Youtube + all other social medias & websites is my answer , the gear that served me best on Camino i found it in youtube in long distance hiking chanels . Probably the worst place is FB imho . I only observed how things changed last 5 years reg Camino .
Why a new pilgrim will bother to register here instead of shooting some questions/post on FB/IG or watch some videos ?
Most of the people in their 20's / 30's maybe know about internet forums but never use/visit them .
It is almost to compare Irc with WhatsApp .
I realy like this forum but it is for "oldtimers" unfortunaley .
I hope my answer won't upset anyone it is just how i see it .

 

[David Tallan]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

I suspect that when temperatures get high, others will be leaving early, too. When I walked the Frances in July and August, most had left by 6 or 6:30. I don't think VDLP would be that different.

If one is quiet, doesn't rustle bags or use a headlamp, I don't think it us selfish to leave a dorm early to avoid walking in the hottest part if the day when temperatures get really high.

 

[MsLaurie]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

This is a great resource (THANK YOU< IVAR!) Other venues for discussion now exist, such as YouTube, altho the presenters may not always be transparent about their techniques.

 

[Bradypus]

If one is quiet, doesn't rustle bags or use a headlamp, I don't think it us selfish to leave a dorm early to avoid walking in the hottest part if the day when temperatures get really high.

That would be very welcome if it happened in practice. But the phrase 'counsel of perfection' springs to mind.

 

[Dilbin]

Remember all the posts about blisters!!!. It was like every pilgrim had his or her own remedy. Well for new pilgrims. I started the Camino in Roncesvalles in 2007 age 63 and I got blisters and treated them with needle and thread and betadine and compeed. In fact I threaded my needles at home because the lighting in some crowded albergues was bad. After a few years I pondered 'why did I get blisters in Spain and not in Ireland?' 'Sweaty feet' was the answer so I decided prevention was better than cure and each morning on Camino, before putting on my socks I put antiperspirant on to my feet and I don't get blisters any more. If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

Like yourself I come from the Auld country and have completed a few Caminos now. Its all about shoes and socks for me and always getting Leuko tape straight onto those hotspots. Stopping and changing socks also work. Most of the time I've been blister free and other times I didn't realise I had any blisters until I returned home. So maybe the feet are toughening up. My worst experience was the 3 days after Santander. Different shoes and 3 days of all asphalt. The following 2 weeks was pain non stop but oh so rewarding. A mixed bag but that was my favourite time in terms of meditation and soul searching. Buen Camino

 

[Dilbin]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

That's a bit extreme. Every Camino I've walked has involved early rising and I'm a very considerate person. The important thing is to have the morning exit prepared. Backpack full and leave the room immediately without any noise or lights. All changing, washing and other stuff is done outside and away from the Dorm. I've frequently encountered pilgrims rattling bags, wearing head torches etc and this I consider selfish and inconsiderate but please don't assume everyone is like that.

 

[David Tallan]

That would be very welcome if it happened in practice. But the phrase 'counsel of perfection' springs to mind.

When I was leaving before 6 on those hot days, I had everything packed the night before except my sleeping bag liner. I would get up, roll out of bed, grab the liner and pack and leave the room without using a headlamp. No plastic bag rustling, no headlamp, I like to think I was quiet. Outside the room I would put on my shoes (which, on the CF, generally were kept outside the rooms) and put my liner into the backpack. I wasn't the only one able to leave quietly.

Sure, some are inconsiderate. But some aren't. And it isn't impossible to leave early considerately. I wouldn't assume everyone is the former. Nor would I say that if you want to avoid walking in the heat of the day in a summer Camino, you should have to stay in a private room.

 

[adam lapp]

Many comments are from much more experienced pilgrims than me, so I defer. But I will say, this is my 8th camino hike and a few things remain the same that I love and brings me back year after year using my entire holiday time for the year - meeting new like-minded interesting people + the sense of adventure (maybe there are more pilgrims, and more and more quirkier, but that’s okay). And I’ll chime in on GPS…I definitely gotten lost (really lost) a few times, but having the wise pilgrim app that lets me know whether I’m on the way or off the way I think is a WIN for technology. But I agree with some comments, there are things we need to hold strongly to keep with the great parts of the tradition. Side note on the blister post - I always got inner heal blisters that hurt badly. Now I do “preventative” compeed in that one area and have loved it. Maybe cost $30 for the trip but saves me from debilitating pain.

 

[Wippe]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

I agree. Maybe the esrly birds could share a room

 

[trecile]

If one is quiet, doesn't rustle bags or use a headlamp, I don't think it us selfish to leave a dorm early to avoid walking in the hottest part if the day when temperatures get really high

I agree, if one can leave quietly I don't care if it's because of heat or personal preference. But please DO NOT set an audible alarm for 5 am then proceed to rustle plastic bags for 15 minutes. This just happened to me the other day despite a sign in the albergue asking pilgrims not to make noise before 7:30 am, and it wasn't even a hot day!

 

[David Tallan]

I agree, if one can leave quietly I don't care if it's because of heat or personal preference. But please DO NOT set an audible alarm for 5 am then proceed to rustle plastic bags for 15 minutes. This just happened to me the other day despite a sign in the albergue asking pilgrims not to make noise before 7:30 am, and it wasn't even a hot day!

That's why the conditions of not making noise and not rustling bags were put at the very beginning of my sentence.

When I needed an alarm to get up early I would set a vibrating alarm and put my phone under my pillow. I don't think the alarm was waking anyone else.

 

[dougfitz]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

It seems early rising is a normal pattern where there is no defined time when the albergue will be opened. If you get disturbed by this, it certainly is worth thinking about getting a private room - one for you so you can enjoy the quiet.

As a matter of general principle, I think it is inappropriate for someone to ask another pilgrim to bear any extra cost just for the purpose of making the life of the person asking more comfortable. Accept that what might be considered normal behaviour in albergues and other places offering any form of dormitory accommodation is going to be unlike anything you might have experienced before, and you are not going to be in control of it in any sensible way. Pilgrims are generally not unkind, but can be thoughtless, and themselves poorly prepared to deal with what might seem to be quite strange circumstances you and they face every day.

As a practical matter, I have stayed in places where other pilgrims have left early without waking me, and others where there was so much noise and light that sleeping in a howler monkey colony might have been more peaceful. If you are going to do it, please be considerate of your fellow pilgrims when leaving early.

 

[Dilbin]

I agree. Maybe the esrly birds could share a room

Why would I have to share a room when I never wake anyone. Pack and prepare the night before. Leave the room and do all other preparation away from the Dorm. It's simple and considerate. No noise made ever on any Camino.

 

[Wippe]

Why would I have to share a room when I never wake anyone. Pack and prepare the night before. Leave the room and do all other preparation away from the Dorm. It's simple and considerate. No noise made ever on any Camino.

I meant
that the ones starting early could share a room

 

[dougfitz]

Why would I have to share a room when I never wake anyone. Pack and prepare the night before. Leave the room and do all other preparation away from the Dorm. It's simple and considerate. No noise made ever on any Camino.

laus in proprio ore sordescit, the polite translation of which is self praise is no recommendation. If someone else said this of you, that would be a different matter. Only the people you left will know whether they were woken and chose to try and keep sleeping. Nonetheless, I applaud your approach.

 

[Dilbin]

I meant
that the ones starting early could share a room

Yes. I understand your point. Its just that many pilgrims make noise late at night or early in the morning. When I'm on route and stay in a Dorm I make sure never to make noise and leave early every time. Waking others is inconsi

laus in proprio ore sordescit, the polite translation of which is self praise is no recommendation. If someone else said this of you, that would be a different matter. Only the people you left will know whether they were woken and chose to try and keep sleeping. Nonetheless, I applaud your approach.

Well its not self praise really. Its more a matter of reacting to the earlier post which stated leaving early is selfish and early risers should get a private room. Regardless of where one goes it is common courtesy to respect the land, culture and people. That is the same approach on the Camino.

 

[trecile]

When I needed an alarm to get up early I would set a vibrating alarm and put my phone under my pillow. I don't think the alarm was waking anyone else.

I set the vibrating alarm on my Fitbit on my wrist. I've only done it three times on my current Camino, and have woken up naturally before the alarm each time.

 

[David Tallan]

I meant
that the ones starting early could share a room

And Dilbin responded as one of the ones leaving early.

 

[Felice]

When I was leaving before 6 on those hot days, I had everything packed the night before except my sleeping bag liner. I would get up, roll out of bed, grab the liner and pack and leave the room without using a headlamp. No plastic bag rustling, no headlamp, I like to think I was quiet. Outside the room I would put on my shoes (which, on the CF, generally were kept outside the rooms) and put my liner into the backpack. I wasn't the only one able to leave quietly.

Sure, some are inconsiderate. But some aren't. And it isn't impossible to leave early considerately. I wouldn't assume everyone is the former. Nor would I say that if you want to avoid walking in the heat of the day in a summer Camino, you should have to stay in a private room.

Totally agree.
A couple of weeks ago on the CF, I stayed at Grañon. The hospitalero specifically asked people not to get up before 6.
At 5.15, I was woken by someone rustling plastic bags, using a head torch that repeatedly went in my direction. When I turned over, I noticed that the lady who had slept on the mattress beside me, had already gone. She had obviously left pretty quietly, unlike the inconsiderate pain of a pilgrim who took ages and ages to get ready, unpacking and repacking plastic bags, rolling up her sleeping bag, putting things in her rucksack and taking them out again - all by swivelling torch light. Then she proceeded to put her sun cream on!!!!

 

[NorthernLight]

Memories flooding in of the conversations I had with fellow pilgrims while waiting for my weekly turn at a computer. We would chat about the emails we received from loved ones at home. That’s right, weekly, not hourly or daily but once a week communication to/from home. Oh the good ol days.

Flashback … I spent a year backpacking around the world, sending a weekly postcard or letter home, hoping they would arrive (there was a three month stretch where none of my mail arrived). I phoned home twice that year.

I love having a smartphone with me, even if I only use it with wifi.

My first camino was without a plan except to walk, with a Miam Miam Dodo guidebook purchased the day I started, and before I knew of this forum. Now it seems most people plan the heck out of their itinerary. I’ve planned what’s coming with me, but never the itinerary beyond a starting point.

I suspect smartphones have made people more dependant than they were before.

 

[dougfitz]

Its more a matter of reacting to the earlier post which stated leaving early is selfish and early risers should get a private room. Regardless of where one goes it is common courtesy to respect the land, culture and people. That is the same approach on the Camino.

I get it, and I think that where there is no rule or guidance from the albergue about what are to be observed as quiet times, pilgrims can and will leave early. And they should, as you do, take measures to ensure that they don't wake others. But the only ones that will know whether or not they have succeeded in not waking others in the dormitory are those others, not the person who is departing.

 

[David Tallan]

Memories flooding in of the conversations I had with fellow pilgrims while waiting for my weekly turn at a computer. We would chat about the emails we received from loved ones at home. That’s right, weekly, not hourly or daily but once a week communication to/from home. Oh the good ol days.

Memories flooding in. Carefully selecting who would get which postcard, laboriously writing them out and taking them to Correos to send. Knowing I was not going to see a reply until the Camino was over. Internet cafes and widespread use of email were still a few years away. Oh the good old days!

 

[Walton]

While I continue to try to walk a Camino each spring and to volunteer at the Pilgrim Office each summer - usually around the Apostle's Feast - when they need the help the most, life sometimes gets in the way. I am currently the caregiver for my wife, who is gravely ill. So, no Santiago or Camino for me this season. Señor Santiago will still be there next year, and the years after.

Tom - Well said.

As for change - Gosh - It happens continuously.

I saw it year in and year out while teaching at University. Students come and go rapidly, not so much the people in the administration, but change nevertheless happens. Even teaching has changed, some would say for the better, some would say for the worse.

It is what it is.

It's called life - but yes, I do wish some forum posters would do a simple search before asking yet another bed bug question or should I use poles or not etc. Many topics reoccur over and over and I just shake my head a bit.

Also

I'm saddened that your wife is gravely ill and please know that you both are in my thoughts and no doubt in the thoughts of many other forum members too.

All the best Tom and thanks for your well thought out answer.

Graham

 

[FourSeasons]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

Firstly, I am not selfish so please refrain from name calling. You have it backwards, if you don’t want to be disturbed, get a private room. I’ve been disturbed by early risers in an albergues plenty of time. I learned to prepare the night before if I wanted to leave early and will continue to stay in an albergue when doing so. I was very stealth and disturbed no one. I know because I would see the same pilgrims and some would comment on how surprised they were to see me gone in the morning. Sleep tight.

 

[good_old_shoes]

Starting that early is selfish if you're staying in a dormitory - you'll wake everyone up.
If you want to start that early please get your own room

I'd say it's the exact opposite.

It's almost impossible to not be disturbed by *something* sleeping in the same dormitory as many others. Early risers, snoring, people getting up to go to the toilet, ect. ect. That's part of normal albergue life, even if everyone does their best to be respectful and quiet.

If you need a quiet environment and want to sleep longer, it's better to get a private room.

If there's no rule in an albergue at what time you're allowed to leave, an early start is what many pilgrims prefer in summer. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you have packed your stuff the evening before and leave quietly (and don't use an audible alarm, a head lamp ect).

Of course if there's a rule not to get up before 6am or so, then one should respect that. I've been lying awake in my bed for hours when walking from Le Puy, because often the French pilgrims would agree on a common "get up" time, which was usually around 7-8am. As an early riser that meant at least two or three hours lying awake in bed for me, which was quite annoying and made me prefer my tent.

One should always try to be as respectful as possible when staying in shared rooms / dormitorios, of course. Leaving early is quite a normal thing to do, though, at least in summer. Leaving at 7 or 8am is simply too late then and would mean walking through the afternoon heat.

 

[WGroleau]

Youtube + all other social medias & websites is my answer , …
Why a new pilgrim will bother to register here instead of shooting some questions/post on FB/IG or watch some videos ?
Most of the people in their 20's / 30's maybe know about internet forums but never use/visit them .
It is almost to compare Irc with WhatsApp .
I realy like this forum but it is for "oldtimers" unfortunaley .
I hope my answer won't upset anyone it is just how i see it .

I'm almost seventy and retired from a computerized career. I think I have to agree. I have a genealogy website that my relatives who are interested in genealogy NEVER visit. It just can't compete with Facebook or Ancestry.com The sad thing is that neither site wins in the information category—just in eye candy.

 

[t2andreo]

Tom - Well said.

As for change - Gosh - It happens continuously.

I saw it year in and year out while teaching at University. Students come and go rapidly, not so much the people in the administration, but change nevertheless happens. Even teaching has changed, some would say for the better, some would say for the worse.

It is what it is.

It's called life - but yes, I do wish some forum posters would do a simple search before asking yet another bed bug question or should I use poles or not etc. Many topics reoccur over and over and I just shake my head a bit.

Also

I'm saddened that your wife is gravely ill and please know that you both are in my thoughts and no doubt in the thoughts of many other forum members too.

All the best Tom and thanks for your well thought out answer.

Graham

Thank you very much for your kind words of support.

 

[brian560]

I’ve recently had that on the VdlP. The strategy I used was……..

1. Leave an hour or more before dawn. Without disturbing others! This became my favourite part of the day. Watching the dawn is amazing.
2. Try to finish walking by 2pm at the latest. 3-4 pm is often the hottest time.
3. Carry plenty of water. For me that is roughly 1 litre per 10 kms, but will vary with terrain and temp.
4. Take electrolytes. I use saltsticks or Aquarius. If carrying 2 litres fluids, 1 was Aquarius.
5. use an umbrella!

I never had any problems.

I would add a good head torch. We did a bit of blundering around in the dark in the first couple of weeks on the VdlP trying to find the arrows.

 

[Chizuru]

In answering the original comment that started this whole post, I think that the old questions that people used to ask have been answered so many times in so many threads that new pilgrims have ample material to look through from the wisdom of past pilgrims that they don't need to pose the same question for the hundredth time to once again get the same answers. They just go straight to the old threads.

 

[HappyValerie]

I totally understand where all the experienced folk are coming from re age-old posts re blisters, bedbugs, poles, boots vs shoes, poncho vs top & pants. In defence of newbies, they have no idea that these are age-old questions that have been discussed for ever. I think polite reference to existing threads is kind, encouraging & helpful.

 

[WalkingInGers]

I will have to find a thread tha discusses how to pack one’s backpack silently, in the dark, when one has a CPAP machine in three parts.

 

[dougfitz]

In defence of newbies, they have no idea that these are age-old questions that have been discussed for ever.

That's a pretty weak defence if you ask me. One only has to think 'what have other people asked about (insert here topic that is of interest) on the forum', and use the search function to discover that. If you want to refine your search, it is possible to do a targeted search on the site using any of the major search engines. I use DuckDuckGo, with a query like:

topic of interest site:https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/​

There are equivalents in the other search engines.

I think polite reference to existing threads is kind, encouraging & helpful.

Indeed. However, most of the recent angst I have seen about this has been generated by members asking questions that have already been asked in almost exactly the same form and then extensively discussed within the last few weeks. It's not just older members that are entitled to get offended when this happens - everyone who has contributed to such earlier discussions might.

 

[dougfitz]

I will have to find a thread tha discusses how to pack one’s backpack silently, in the dark, when one has a CPAP machine in three parts.

That is difficult. I have given up trying to leave early now that I carry my CPAP. Mine has some care routines that aren't specifically noisy, but can be time consuming to complete. They can be done while I am preparing everything else for packing, but because I like my CPAP to be in the middle of my pack, I cannot complete packing until the CPAP is ready to be packed.

 

[Glenshiro]

When I started, the main problem was the dragons.

 

[Felice]

Youtube + all other social medias & websites is my answer , the gear that served me best on Camino i found it in youtube in long distance hiking chanels . Probably the worst place is FB imho . I only observed how things changed last 5 years reg Camino .
Why a new pilgrim will bother to register here instead of shooting some questions/post on FB/IG or watch some videos ?
Most of the people in their 20's / 30's maybe know about internet forums but never use/visit them .
It is almost to compare Irc with WhatsApp .
I realy like this forum but it is for "oldtimers" unfortunaley .
I hope my answer won't upset anyone it is just how i see it .

I'm an 'old timer' and am certainly not upset by your comment, it's probably got more than a grain of truth in it.

I hate FB. I joined the Le Puy FB group but gave up because I found it impossible to search for past answers. Maybe this is why newbies just plunge straight in and ask questions that have been asked so many times before, they're just not used to searching a site.

I also don't find the search function on this site very user friendly - if I put in a word or phrase, up come pages and pages of stuff, much of which is irrelevant. Maybe there have just been too many discussions over the years and the noise now overwhelms the message?

When I first joined this site, there was a brilliant side panel with key words such as boots, poles, bed bugs etc and clicking on them brought up the thread. Maybe it needs reinstating in some form to help newbies who don't know that the website can be searched?!!!!!

 

[David]

To go back to the OP - I agree, the forum content has changed. Re forum, two things I am aware of, the first that it was 'streamlined' a while back, a lot of banter was removed so many old timers left, the second possibly the hiatus during the long global plague, many dropped away.

Re excited packing lists and rucksack and footwear and training and blisters, etc posts .... when The Way became so popular was there a huge surge in new pilgrims who had no experience of walking, hiking? and has that surge now dropped away?

I always enjoyed the packing list posts most I think - some of the replies were so inventive!

Re losing glasses? This one I do not understand ... if glasses are important and someone is going on a five week rucksack hike in a foreign country, then surely they buy two pairs of really cheap glasses and leave their designer ones at home? If they break or lose their glasses they have a back up pair, and if they take their prescription with them if they are twice unlucky they just get some cheap ones made at the next city ... or am I missing something?

p.s. .... hhmmm .. might post a packing list next

 

[good_old_shoes]

Youtube + all other social medias & websites is my answer , the gear that served me best on Camino i found it in youtube in long distance hiking chanels . Probably the worst place is FB imho . I only observed how things changed last 5 years reg Camino .
Why a new pilgrim will bother to register here instead of shooting some questions/post on FB/IG or watch some videos ?
Most of the people in their 20's / 30's maybe know about internet forums but never use/visit them .
It is almost to compare Irc with WhatsApp .
I realy like this forum but it is for "oldtimers" unfortunaley .
I hope my answer won't upset anyone it is just how i see it .

I agree that forums are probably seen as a bit old fashioned, and therefore not used as much by younger people.

I personally still prefer forums like this one because information is easier to find. I prefer having different sections for different topics, similar to chapters in a book, which makes it easier for me to find information than scrolling through endless posts in facebook ect.

Also, forums like this one tend to be moderated. On facebook ect. people can write all kinds of wrong information or be as rude as they want, often without any intervention by a moderator.

With regard to newbies asking all kinds of questions that have been answered countless times, I think that might have to do with how other social media like facebook ect. work. It's quite difficult there to search for older posts that might contain the information you're looking for, so it is more common to directly ask instead of searching.

For me, facebook is like walking into a run down bar in a seedy area of town, and asking random people there for information, which might produce various results from getting a nonsense answer or being ridiculed for even asking to getting a very good answer, or even accidentally starting a bar fight.

While a forum like this one is more like reading an interactive book about the topic you're interested in, that allows you to also ask questions to people who know what they're talking about, with a high probability of getting a good answer, and all that in a usually respectful way even when opinions on things are sometimes very opposite.

Easy decision where I'll search for reliable information.

 

[David]

Remember all the posts about blisters!!!. It was like every pilgrim had his or her own remedy. Well for new pilgrims. I started the Camino in Roncesvalles in 2007 age 63 and I got blisters and treated them with needle and thread and betadine and compeed. In fact I threaded my needles at home because the lighting in some crowded albergues was bad. After a few years I pondered 'why did I get blisters in Spain and not in Ireland?' 'Sweaty feet' was the answer so I decided prevention was better than cure and each morning on Camino, before putting on my socks I put antiperspirant on to my feet and I don't get blisters any more. If anyone could give me a tip to prevent exhaustion when walking in 28 degrees I would be very grateful.!

Hi Lydia - 28? coo, I think you come from a cool country .. as you know, can be 34 to 40 on the Meseta sometimes!
So - walk slow, really slow - no, really slow, and relaxed.
Shorten distances each day.
Start early.
Make your pack super-light or use a trailer.
Wear a wide brimmed hat made of a material that can be soaked and soak it at every stream or fountain or tap, the evaporation as it dries will cool you..
Carry a long handled umbrella and use it as a parasol (not short handled, arm will really ache after a very short time).
Carry a bandanna or linen napkin with you and often wet it and run over your skin, especially your head.
Hydrate of course but drinking copious amounts of water equals copious amounts of urinating which leaches out the electrolytes our bodies need, especially salt, so use replacement sachets regularly. - If you aren't sweating you are dehydrated, if your sweat isn't salty you have salt/electrolyte problem.
Don't walk between 2 and 4pm (that is what siestas are for).
Drink before you walk in the morning (and the night before), camel your body.
Don't eat sugar in any form (especially designer 'trecking' bars) as blood sugar levels will be raised and give you a boost but only for twenty minutes and then it will quickly drop to below it was before eating the sugar = exhaustion. Each time the body releases insulin to re-balance, a few years of this and the producing gland exhausts and doesn't work anymore and, Hey Presto! Type 2 diabetes.
Same goes for caffeine - give it up; highs and lows, energy and exhaustion - give it up - or! save it for 4pm and have a pot of tea - when we had the empire 4pm tea was what helped us survive in hot countries as is a really strong energising drug.
Don't eat a large lunch and don't drink alcohol at lunch.
Have a servant pulling a cart that carries a solar powered freezer with cold delights inside.
Buen Camino!

 

[Kirkie]

Don's recent thread about the flood of posts about lost glasses made me notice that there are many long time topics that seldom are posted now.

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?
Are most newer pilgrims much stronger than past ones? or....is the weight no longer a concern as many pilgrims are transporting their "luggage".

The conversations have greatly changed and many of the long time contributors are now missing in the forum. Much experience has been lost.

Good to see you, @grayland. I am not too long on the forum. Just since 2014. I found most of the answers to my questions before my CF in 2006, before I was really aware of the forum. I had access to Eroski, mspath, and my walking companion from Pamplona, so really I had the best of help!
I have spent far too many hours on the forum, to tell the truth.
From the start I set my preferences to never receive alerts.
I prefer to look at what catches my eye.
The sources I named and also whatever I could find including csj, johnniewalker, mundicamino were my guides. I must say the csj guide was a boon - no pics, no maps, just lots of kso instructions! It was so lightweight. I gave it away of course, no idea to whom, now.
I agree, the conversations have changed. So has membership. One particular member disappeared, and I have never forgotten to say a prayer for him, as there was no further sign... I hope he is safely on his eternal camino now.
For me, it is not a problem, because the forum will outlast me, the questions can reverberate around a different space I will no longer check in to. It has been a gift to meet some members in person, others on threads, and still others in pms.
So, while I think of it: thanks to each and all who have been part of the forum till now. Best of luck to those who will carry the torch (carefully shielded in the albergue sleeping room in the morning! )...

 

[markie6]

Firstly it's very easy to ask a newbie question and while it's also easy to do a search for an answer , some are out of date or have drifted to the point of no return.

With regard to the culture changing, that's normal as most forums have a brain drain after being busy for so long, all the questions start to look old and not worthy of further discussion or boring ?

With regard to people asking where they have left their glasses , or lost something .. It's a better place to ask than Fakebook or the like. Many pilgrims walking now check in here from time to time

I haven't lost my glasses ( not even my rose tinted ones ) but if they were important to me / expensive I would ask and perhaps a lost and found sub forum ( maybe there is one ) would help

Things change, time, us and everything else.... Nostalgia isn't what it used to be .....

 

[Bradypus]

Re excited packing lists and rucksack and footwear and training and blisters, etc posts .... when The Way became so popular was there a huge surge in new pilgrims who had no experience of walking, hiking? and has that surge now dropped away?

The profile of those walking the Caminos has certainly changed. We are a far older bunch on average now than when I first walked. The Camino was not very widely known then and the majority of those who chose to walk it were mainly students and most were overtly religious. Any lack of experience of long-distance walking was largely overcome by the relative youth and enthusiasm of the pilgrims. These days there is far more infrastructure and support services dedicated to minimising the physical demands of walking a Camino. And so people who in a previous generation would have considered an 800km walking journey far beyond their capability are now taking advantage of far more frequent accommodation, luggage transport, internet reservations, travel agencies and so on. The pilgrim office numbers suggest that the surge of walkers is far from dropping away. I think that there are still many amongst the newcomers who have little or no experience of long distance walking. But there are many sources of information to draw upon these days.

 

[JabbaPapa]

Whatever happened to the weekly. daily, or less threads and posts concerning pack weight and how to manage it?

Many of those conversations have shifted to Youtube hiking channels, apart from which medium- and long- distance hiking have become a lot more mainstream than even just 10 years ago, so that general awareness of these questions is much better than it was.